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Is Todd Friel Right?
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
- Start date
Dave G
Well-Known Member
No.
There is no "correct appropriation of the good news of the Gospel", as one cannot appropriate a gift, and that gift being eternal life ( Romans 6:23 ).
As in other threads,
Those that believe the Gospel and have believed on Christ, from the heart, have not done so in order to "get saved"...
They believed on Christ because they are His sheep ( John 10:26-28 ) and are the ones that Christ has saved because the Father has given them to Him to do so ( John 17:2 ).
They believe His words because they "of God" ( John 8:43-47 ), and God loved them even when they were dead in their trespasses and sins ( Ephesians 2:1-7 ).
They are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:10 ).
Repentance and faith have both been granted to them by God, in His grace and mercy, and are products of being who God has made them to be...
His faithful people.
There is no "correct appropriation of the good news of the Gospel", as one cannot appropriate a gift, and that gift being eternal life ( Romans 6:23 ).
As in other threads,
Those that believe the Gospel and have believed on Christ, from the heart, have not done so in order to "get saved"...
They believed on Christ because they are His sheep ( John 10:26-28 ) and are the ones that Christ has saved because the Father has given them to Him to do so ( John 17:2 ).
They believe His words because they "of God" ( John 8:43-47 ), and God loved them even when they were dead in their trespasses and sins ( Ephesians 2:1-7 ).
They are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus ( Ephesians 2:10 ).
Repentance and faith have both been granted to them by God, in His grace and mercy, and are products of being who God has made them to be...
His faithful people.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
so, according to your personal theology, a sinner is born-again, because they are already, before this time, "His sheep"? so they are born-again before they are saved? And you say that you are not a Calvinist or Reformed. NO Christian believes this complete nonsense, unless they are from these camps!
Dave G
Well-Known Member
According to what I see in the Scriptures ( which I have tried many times to show you ), a sinner is born again by God's will, not our will.
The new birth and the belief of the Gospel are very closely tied together, but the belief of the Gospel does not cause God to make a person a new creature in Christ.
Christ's sheep are His sheep from the foundation of the world, when the Lord chose them "in Him" ( Ephesians 1:4-5 ).
Regeneration takes a rebellious sinner and makes them new, starting on the inside, spiritually.
Please look at Acts of the Apostles 16 again, specifically verse 14.
No.
They are God's elect before they are born, and they are born again in their lifetimes, when the Lord calls them through His word and through His Spirit.
That is correct.
Peter did, Paul did, John did and many others did.
Where do you think what was inspired in the New Testament came from?
The Lord and through His apostles.
How is it that you cannot believe me when I say I was raised IFB, and yet came to this independently of men?
SBG, all I did was study the Scriptures, as the Lord told me to do ( 2 Timothy 2:15, 1 Peter 2:2 ).
Sigh...
I cannot tell whether you are unable to follow Dave because you struggle to comprehend or because you are so stuck in your personal belief that you are incapable of seeing anything outside of your narrow purview.
Your caricature of what Dave has said is, grossly off. I will let Dave point out your false equivalence.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
Sometimes Friel's use of absurd illustrations is I think confusing. But he did well especially the last minute of the second video. There is a danger though in that it's possible to slip into a type of doctrine where you start expecting folks to repent in the sense of fixing their lives and mending their ways and then and only then after this preparation can they come to Christ in faith. Some of the Puritans drifted into this. This is not what Todd does - but he is trying to avoid the fast, shallow conversions that occur from aggressive "soul winning" where a person is "saved" without even knowing what's going on. This was popular in the 80's in some Baptist circles. It has filled churches with unsaved people and is a problem.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
very simple. no repentance, no salvation!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
Jesus very cleary says that the sinner MUST first "repent and believe in the Gospel", (Mark 1:15). EVERY other way is from the devil!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
I expect this form you!
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
DaveXR650
Well-Known Member
I'm new on this site so I don't want to be arguing with anybody but I'm having some difficulty with this line of logic. I have no problem with the idea that repentance, like faith, is 100% a gift. But it is still real and still something actually done by a person who comes to Christ and Friel's description of it is pretty good. We are commanded to repent and believe the gospel so I don't see how someone saying it is necessary could be wrong. I do see how you could make a mistake by claiming it as a virtue of your own that you bring as a prior qualification.
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Of course. I can readily see when someone makes a well stated, scripturally sound argument which clearly and definitively destroys your weak arguments.
Again, DaveG very politely explained with scripture why you are wrong. All you can do is call names.
I expect that from you.
peace to you
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
This is quite correct. 'My sheep hear My voice and they follow Me.' Therefore they are Christ's sheep before they hear the Shepherd's voice. 'He who is of God hears God's words; therefore you do not hear because you are not of God' (John 8:47). One does not become one of God's sheep by believing; one believes because one is one of Christ's sheep (c.f. also John 10:26) and therefore, when the Shepherd calls, the sheep hears.
There is a general call that goes out to all mankind as in Mark 1:15. To whom were the words addressed? To anyone and everyone within earshot. Who should respond? Everyone who hears. They are the words of the King of kings and Lord of lords; it is the duty of all men to obey him. Do they do so? No, they don't. 'But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life' (John 5:40). But there is also a particular call that goes out to God's elect, and it is irresistible. 'After these things He went out and saw a tax collector named Levi, sitting at the tax office. And He said to him, "Follow Me." So he left all, rose up and followed Him' (Luke 5:27-28).
Now to answer the specific question: yes, repentance is necessary for salvation. No one will be saved who has not seen himself as a sinner, repented, and trusted in Christ for redemption. But there are two points to be made.
1. Repentance and faith are two sides of the same coin. Sometimes the call is to repent (e.g. Acts of the Apostles 2:38) and at other times to believe (e.g. Acts of the Apostles 16:31). But no one is saved without doing both (Mark 1:15 again).
2. Repentance, like faith, is absolutely the gift of God (Acts of the Apostles 5:31; 11:38; Romans 2:4; 2 Timothy 2:25; Hebrews 6:6). In fairness, Todd Friel says as much.
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i agree and would like to add my thoughts to your post:
The sheep are chosen by God, for purpose, see Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to (his) purpose.
? Purpose ? Rev 20:4,6 says they will reign with Christ a thousand years, beginning with their resurrection.
What does James 1:22 YLT say relative to this/them - having counselled, He did beget us with a word of truth, for our being a certain first-fruit of His creatures. --- the elect
? Does using the word, first-fruit, imply other fruit of the same, certainty, at some other time?
Why is Jesus returning to rule, on the earth, of the tabernacle of David, with his saints?
Could Acts 15:17 be the answer? that the residue of men may seek after the Lord, and all the nations, upon whom My name hath been called, saith the Lord, who is doing all these things.
Does that verse equate to what is said in Eph 1:10 and was made known to the first-fruit V 9? V 10 in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him; V 9 having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself,
Now, one of my favorite verses Acts 15:18 'Known from the ages to God are all His works;
Newsflash: Your opinion is not the teachings of the Holy Bible. You think they are, but often they are not. Please don't obfuscate this point of reality.You can't destroy the Teachings of the Holy Bible