Soteriology 102

[Dave G]

End of matter!

May I direct your eyes to 2 Timothy 2:24-26, my friend?

" And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,
25 in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
26 and [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

If you're unwilling explain what you see in the Scriptures to those who profess Christ without losing your patience, may I suggest that perhaps you might re-consider what it is that you're doing and why?

None of God's preachers or teachers are the believer's authority when it comes to how they understand His words...
God is ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 1 John 2:20-27 ).
My hope is that you keep this in mind when you're dealing with those who may disagree with you.


May He bless you with patience and meekness, my friend,
as well as His wisdom from above that is "... first pure, then peaceable, gentle, [and] easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy." ( James 3:17 ) .

 

[SavedByGrace]

So a choosing before the foundation of the world is not before one's faith. Ephesians 1:4, Ephesians 2:8.

would you guys stop abusing the Bible! WHERE in either of these passages that are MISUSED by the reformed, say that anyone is "elected", that is, "born-again" BEFORE they repent and believe? [Snip]

 

[SavedByGrace]

I've learned how...the Lord has taught me

says you, yet ALL of your posts are very clearly "reformed" in their langauge. No normal Christian without the reformed bias, will ever write as you do!

 

[Dave G]

No normal Christian without the reformed bias, will ever write as you do!

What's a "normal Christian" look like?
As the Bible describes them, or as is traditionally accepted?

 

[SavedByGrace]

What's a "normal Christian" look like?

one who is certainly NON REFORMED as they have MANY hang-ups against the simple Teachings of the Bible, especially with the UNBIBLICAL TULI!

 

[Dave G]

one who is certainly NON REFORMED as they have MANY hang-ups against the simple Teachings of the Bible, especially with the UNBIBLICAL TULI!

My friend, it seems that you're losing your patience again.
Are Christians people who believe what Paul preached and taught, or are they people who don't?

 

[SavedByGrace]

My friend, it seems that you're losing your patience again.
are Christians people who believe what Paul preached and taught, or are they people who don't?

because people are blinded to what the Bible says, as Christ many times was impatient with those around Him, as their hearts were hard to the Truth!

 

[Dave G]

because people are blinded to what the Bible says,

And Who is the only one that can open spiritually blind eyes?

 

[SavedByGrace]

And Who is the only one that can open spiritually blind eyes?

The Holy Spirit, but remember what Stephen says, "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do" (Acts 7:51). though some misguided on here say that the Spirit cannot be "resisted"!

 

[Dave G]

The Holy Spirit,

Then what are you getting angry about?

but remember what Stephen says, "You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, you always resist the Holy Spirit! As your fathers did, so you do" (Acts 7:51). though some misguided on here say that the Spirit cannot be "resisted"!

Stephen was speaking to Jews, and they were responsible to repent and believe per the terms of their covenant with God through Moses.
Please see Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.

Again, if the Holy Spirit is the only one who can open spiritually blind eyes, then why are you losing your patience with me?
2 Timothy 2:24-26, my friend.

Don't you think that it's important to you to treat those you disagree with, with patience...in the hopes that God will show them the truth?

 

[Dave G]

Christ many times was impatient with those around Him, as their hearts were hard to the Truth!

The Lord was rebuking the Jews who were responsible to know Who they were dealing with, as their Lord was standing right in front of them and speaking to them.
That was His prerogative, and He knew ( and knows ) the hearts and minds of all that He dealt with...

Christians are to operate under His commands found in many passages, SBG.
They are to obey 2 Timothy 2:24-26, Romans 12, Colossians 3, Titus 3:1-2, etc., are they not?

How is it that you think you're justified in treating people in any other way than with patience, as the Scriptures tell us?

 

[percho]

would you guys stop abusing the Bible! WHERE in either of these passages that are MISUSED by the reformed, say that anyone is "elected", that is, "born-again" BEFORE they repent and believe? [Snip]

Here is a thought.

When was Paul elected?
When was Paul called?
What was Paul elected and called unto?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Here is a thought.

When was Paul elected?
When was Paul called?
What was Paul elected and called unto?

Paul is Paul. God had a special mission for him as He did for John the Baptist

 

[Dave G]

WHERE in either of these passages that are MISUSED by the reformed, say that anyone is "elected", that is, "born-again" BEFORE they repent and believe?

Acts of the Apostles 16:14:

" And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."

 

[AustinC]

one who is certainly NON REFORMED as they have MANY hang-ups against the simple Teachings of the Bible, especially with the UNBIBLICAL TULI!

Would you consider Pope Leo X a normal Christian? He was pope during the Reformation.
Honestly, you must not know history if you think that Calvin was the first person to observe the Supremacy of Christ in the Bible or to imagine that the Sovereignty of God cannot be observed in scripture.
Let's just cut to the chase. What do you hate about the Bible when it speaks of election, adoption, God choosing, and predestination? It is apparent you think the Bible doesn't teach these things and that godless people made them up. Yet, many, many Bible passages are provided with these truths openly shared. Newsflash: Any observant person can read and see these truths in the Bible.

 

[Dave G]

Here is a thought.

When was Paul elected?
When was Paul called?
What was Paul elected and called unto?

1) Ephesians 1:4.
2) Acts of the Apostles 9:1-9.
3) Acts of the Apostles 9:15-16.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Acts of the Apostles 16:14:

" And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul."

That is because she was already a worshipper of the God of the Bible!

 

[Dave G]

That is because she was already a worshipper of the God of the Bible!

So was Cornelius.
Yet, he still had to have the Gospel preached to him, did he not?

Read it closely , my friend...
"...whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things that were spoken of Paul."

In other words,
"Whose heart the Lord opened, so that she listened intently to the things that were spoken by Paul."

1) The Lord opens the heart.
2) The person listens to God's words. <------- Why? See item 1.

Then see John 8:43-47.
John 10:26-27.

The Lord Jesus tells us why people believe and why they do not, and "Reformed Theology" has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Here is why He has to open the heart:

because people are blinded to what the Bible says,

There it is, SBG, and I think that you put it very well...

"People are blinded to what the Bible says."

One can teach and preach God's words all that they want, conduct classes like "Soteriology 101", etc, and if the audience is blind to what the Bible says, then no amount of trying will ever un-blind them, will it?

 

[37818]

say that anyone is "elected", that is, "born-again" BEFORE they repent and believe?

Total misrepresentation. Ephesians 1:4 explicitly teaches ". . . According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, . . ."

 

[SavedByGrace]

Total misrepresentation. Ephesians 1:4 explicitly teaches ". . . According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, . . ."

what does the verse go on to say?