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I AM That I AM

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, Nov 7, 2021.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Part 1


    In Exodus chapter 3, we read in verse 2, " And the Angel of the Lord appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush". Then, in verse 4 we read, " So when the Lord saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”". And further, " Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God." (verse 6). Here we read that it was "The Angel (or "One sent", "Messenger"), Who appeared to Moses "in the bush". Then "Yahweh" saw that Moses turned to take a closer look, and "Elohim" called to Moses "from the middle of the bush", and identifies Himself as, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob”. The Eternal God. It should be noted, that since this Person, "The Angel" is said to be "of the Lord", He must be "distinct" from "the Lord", Who would have "sent" Him on this mission. In Isaiah chapter 48, we have Yahweh speaking (read in context) in verse 16, where He says, "Approach Me and listen to this. From the beginning I have not spoken in secret; from the time anything existed, I was there.” And now the Lord God has sent me and His Spirit". Here we have "Yahweh" Who is said to have been "sent" by "Yahweh Elohim", Who also sends the Holy Spirit. The "Angel (Messenger) of the Lord" is also Someone Who is "sent", as the Hebrew term says. It was The Angel of the Lord who responded to Moses when he asked, "what is His Name, what shall I say to them?" (3:14). To which The Angel of the Lord replied, "Eheyeh asher Eheyeh".

    Exodus 3:14, as translated from the Dead Sea Scrolls, into English, reads: "And God said to [Moses, “I] am that I am.” And he said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, ‘I am has sent me to you.’ ” (Martin Abegg Jr., Peter Flint, Eugene Ulrich; The Dead Sea Scrolls Bible). The Jews also recognise this to be the best rendering of the Hebrew text, "Te true pronunciation of the name YHWH was never lost. Several early Greek writers of the Christian Church testify that the name was pronounced “Yahweh.” This is confirmed, at least for the vowel of the first syllable of the name, by the shorter form Yah, which is sometimes used in poetry (e.g., Ex. 15:2) and the -yahu or -yah that serves as the final syllable in very many Hebrew names. In the opinion of many scholars, YHWH is a verbal form of the root hwh, which is an older variant of the root hyh “to be.” Te vowel of the first syllable shows that the verb is used in the form of a future-present causative hiphʿil, and must therefore mean “He causes to be, He brings into existence.” The explanation of the name as given in Exodus 3:14, Eheyeh-Asher-Eheyeh, “I-Am-Who-I Am,” (Encyclopaedia Judaica). And, " And God said unto Moses: ‘I AM THAT I AM’; and He said: ‘Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel: I AM hath sent me unto you.’" (The Jewish Publication Society of America, The Holy Scriptures according to the Masoretic Text ).

    The Hebrew verb, “’ehyeh” is in the first person singular, “to exist, to be”. It is quite wrong to conclude, as some do, that this verb is always used in the “future tense”. We have examples like Jeremiah 31:9, “They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am (ehyeh) a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.”, and Micah 7:1, “Woe is me! for I am (ehyeh) as when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grape gleanings of the vintage: there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the first ripe fruit.”, and, Job 11:4, “For thou hast said, My doctrine is pure, and I am (ehyeh) clean in thine eyes.”. In each case the verb “’ehyeh” is in the “present tense”.

    The Greek version of the Old Testament, the Septuagint (LXX), which was completed some 150 years before the Birth of Jesus Christ, and carried out by the best Jewish scholars, who would have been experts in both Hebrew and Greek, render the Hebrew of Exodus 3:14, by "Ἐγώ εἰμι ὁ ὤν", which literally has the meaning, "I am He Who Exists", or "I am the Eternal One". Which is the basis of the Name of God in Hebrew, "YHWH". The LXX was the main Old Testament version that was used by the early Christians, though so who were more learned, used the Hebrew, like the scholar Jerome. Because the Christians Made use of the LXX, the Jews in the 2nd century made their own Greek versions of the Old Testament. The first was done by Aquila in the first half of this century. And then towards the end of this century, another was made by Theodotion. Both these versions have rendered the Hebrew, "Eheyeh asher Eheyeh", in Greek “εσομαι (ὃς) εσομαι”, which is the future of “εἰμι”, “I will be Who I will be”. This was done not because they were being more faithful to the Hebrew, but, because it was to counter the Christian use of this verse for the Deity of Jesus Christ, when used with John 8:58. This is exactly what was done in Isaiah 7:14, where the LXX uses “παρθένος” (virgin), where these two Greek versions changed it to “νεᾶνις” (young woman). While it is true that the “παρθένος” can indeed by a “νεᾶνις”, a “νεᾶνις”, may not be a “παρθένος”, thereby removing the link of the Prophecy of the Virgin Birth of Jesus Christ, which was a fulfilment as we seen in Matthew’s Gospel, where he wrote under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, “Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”

    It should be noted, that The Angel of the Lord, never does speak on behalf of God, as His representative, but in many cases, speaks in the first-person as Almighty God Himself, which is never true of any created being, in either the Old or New Testaments. The first appearance of The Angel of the Lord, is found in Genesis chapter 16, where we read of Hagar running away. We read in verse 10, "The Angel of the Lord also said to her, “I will greatly multiply your offspring, and they will be too many to count.”. Something only Almighty God could have said. Then Hagar says, "So she called the Lord who spoke to her: The God Who Sees, for she said, “In this place, have I actually seen the One who sees me?” That is why she named the spring, “A Well of the Living One Who Sees Me.” It is located between Kadesh and Bered." (verses 13-14). In Genesis 22 we are told that "God tested Abraham" (verse 1), and instructs Abraham about offering his only son, Isaac, as a sacrifice to Him (verses 1-10). In verse 11, we read that " But The Angel of the Lord called to him from heaven and said, “Abraham, Abraham!"", and then goes on, "Do not lay a hand on the boy or do anything to him. For now I know that you fear God, since you have not withheld your only son from Me.” (verse 12). And, " Then the Angel of the Lord called to Abraham a second time out of heaven, and said: “By Myself I have sworn, says the Lord, because you have done this thing, and have not withheld your son, your only son" (15-16). None of which can be said of any created angel, as here The Angel again speaks in the first-person as Yahweh, as He did in Exodus chapter 3. We read in the Book of Judges, that, "Then the Angel of the LORD came up from Gilgal to Bochim, and said: “I led you up from Egypt and brought you to the land of which I swore to your fathers; and I said, ‘I will never break My covenant with you. And you shall make no covenant with the inhabitants of this land; you shall tear down their altars.’ But you have not obeyed My voice. Why have you done this? Therefore I also said, ‘I will not drive them out before you; but they shall be thorns in your side, and their gods shall be a snare to you.’ So it was, when the Angel of the LORD spoke these words to all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voices and wept. (2:1-4). We then read in chapter 6, these words, ““Thus says the LORD God (Yahweh Elohim) of Israel: ‘I brought you up from Egypt and brought you out of the house of bondage; and I delivered you out of the hand of the Egyptians and out of the hand of all who oppressed you, and drove them out before you and gave you their land. Also I said to you, “I am the LORD (Yahweh) your God (Elohim); do not fear the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell.” But you have not obeyed My voice.’” (Judges 6:8-10). Note the words that I have highlighted here, and those in chapter two. Malakh Yahweh, speaks in Judges chapter two in the first person, not as One representing another. Again, in Judges chapter six, we have the account where
     
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  2. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Part 2

    Malakh Yahweh, appears to Gideon (verse eleven onwards). After Gideon realised Who it was he was speaking with, Malakh Yahweh, he says, "Alas, O Lord GOD! For I have seen the Angel of the LORD face to face." (v.22). But, how can this be a problem, if Malakh Yahweh, were a created being?. Gideon thought that because he had seen God, that He would now die. But the Lord Himself says to him, “"Then the LORD said to him, “Peace be with you; do not fear, you shall not die". Why, even the need for these words of assurance from Yahweh Himself, if Malakh Yahweh, were a created being? (see, also Judges 13: 21-23 in context)

    In the Prophet Malachi, we read of Yahweh speaking, "Behold, I send My messenger, And he shall clear the way before Me; And the Lord, whom ye seek, Will suddenly come to His temple, And the Angel of the covenant, Whom ye delight in, Behold, he cometh, Saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? And who shall stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner’s fire, And like fullers’ soap" (3:1-2). The Speaker here is "The Lord of Hosts". The first "messenger" spoken of here, is John the Baptist, of whom it is also spoken of in Isaiah, "The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God" (40:3), where the language is very similar to Malachi. We then read of "the Lord whom you seek", Who is further described as "the Angel of the covenant", Who is "Coming". This "Lord" and "Angel", Who are one and the same Person, cannot be the first "messenger" spoken of, as it says, " But who may abide the day of his coming? And who shall stand when he appeareth? For he is like a refiner’s fire, And like fullers’ soap", which can hardly be used for John the Baptist, or any other created being!

    Mark begins his Gospel with quotations from both Malachi 3:1 and Isaiah 40:3, and applies them to the First Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, and John the Baptist as His forerunner. "The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight." (Mark 1:1-3). The words, " Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee", are a quotation from Malachi 3:1, and "The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight", are from Isaiah 40:3. Mark has the Prophecy at the beginning of his Gospel. In Matthew (11:10) and Luke (7:27), the words are spoken by the Lord Jesus Christ. The three quotations from Malachi are not from the LXX, but rather a free translation from the Hebrew, made by Jesus Himself. In the original it is Jehovah Himself who speaks of His own coming: “Behold, I will send My messenger, and he shall prepare the way before Me.” In the Evangelist’s paraphrase it is Jehovah who speaks to the Christ—“shall prepare Thy way before Thee.”. The words in Malachi 3, have been altered so as to make the Messianic reference apparent—μου (Me) changed into σου (Thee). By applying the Prophecy to John, Jesus identifies him with the messenger whom God was to send to prepare Messiah’s way. A very strong testimony to the Deity of Jesus Christ, to Himself! Jesus thereby identifies Himself with "the Lord" and "Angel of the Covenant", in Malachi 3:1, who is "Coming". The Prophecy from Isaiah 40 identifies the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, as the Coming of Yahweh, "Prepare ye the way of the LORD", who are One and the same, and another testimony of the Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ, Who is "Yahweh and Elohim".
     
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  3. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    John 12:44 YLT And Jesus cried and said, 'He who is believing in me, doth not believe in me, but in Him who sent me;
    And
    John 12:49 YLT because I spake not from myself, but the Father who sent me, He did give me a command, what I may say, and what I may speak,

    Gal 4:4 NKJV But when the fullness of the time had come, God sent forth His Son, born[fn] (or made)* of a woman, born under the law,
    Matt 1:18 YLT And of Jesus Christ, the birth* was thus: For his mother Mary having been betrothed to Joseph, before their coming together she was found to have conceived from the Holy Spirit,
    Matt 1:20 YLT And on his thinking of these things, lo, a messenger of the Lord in a dream appeared to him, saying, 'Joseph, son of David, thou mayest not fear to receive Mary thy wife, for that which in her was begotten* is of the Holy Spirit, < Lit. out of Spirit is Holy)

    Reconcile those verses with your OP. also the following

    John 8:42 YLT Jesus then said to them, 'If God were your father, ye were loving me, for I came forth from God, and am come; for neither have I come of myself, but He sent me;
    V 49 Jesus answered, 'I have not a demon, but I honour my Father, and ye dishonour me;
    V 58 Jesus said to them, 'Verily, verily, I say to you, Before Abraham's coming -- I am;'

    Did Spirit the God, "I will be who I will be," in the fulness of time, send himself, through woman, the Word made flesh, I Am, the Christ, the Son of the Living God?

    Hebrews 2:9 YLT and him who was made some little less than messengers we see -- Jesus -- because of the suffering of the death, with glory and honour having been crowned, that by the grace of God for every one he might taste of death.
     
  4. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I am not sure how to respond to this, as I don't understand what you are trying to say? All the Bible verses that you have quoted, are post Incarnation, when Jesus Christ became the God-Man, and subjected Himself to the Father, for His time on earth, which will end at the Second Coming.
     
  5. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    Let me ask you a few questions concerning Jesus the Christ?

    That little baby that the virgin Mary gave birth to.
    Was that baby a new human being that did not exist as a human being prior to being given birth by the virgin Mary?
    Did that little human being who God had told his parents to name Jesus grow up to be a a full grown human being, man?
    Did that human being, give his life, die?
    Was that human being raised out of the dead? Remember Jesus Christ, raised out of the dead, of the seed of David, according to my good news, Is this speaking of a human being, man?
    Did that human being ascend to heaven?

    Did God come in the flesh as a human being by being born of woman? Was Jesus, born of woman, the I Am, of who Spirit the God, said He would be? Is Jesus, born of woman, the virgin Mary, the Son of the Highest?

    And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS. He (Jesus, the son you brought forth) shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: Luke 1:32,33

    Matt 22:41-45 And the Pharisees having been gathered together, Jesus did question them, saying, 'What do ye think concerning the Christ? of whom is he son?' They say to him, 'Of David.' He saith to them, 'How then doth David in the Spirit call him lord, saying, The Lord said to my lord, Sit at my right hand, till I may make thine enemies thy footstool?
    If then David doth call him lord, how is he his son?'

    V 46 And no one was able to answer him a word, nor durst any from that day question him any more.

    Do you have an answer?

    I do.

    I believed Jesus in the virgin Mary, was conceived out of Spirit in Holiness, of the seed of David through Mary and he died, then: Remember Jesus Christ, raised out of the dead, of the seed of David, according to my good news, 2 Tim 2:8 God hath in full completed this to us their children, having raised up Jesus, (Out of the dead) as also in the second Psalm it hath been written, My Son thou art -- I to-day have begotten thee.

    Compare to Acts 2:29,34-36

    'Men, brethren! it is permitted to speak with freedom unto you concerning the patriarch David, that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is among us unto this day;
    for David did not go up to the heavens, and he saith himself: The Lord saith to my lord, Sit thou at my right hand, till I make thy foes thy footstool; assuredly, therefore, let all the house of Israel know, that both Lord and Christ did God make him -- this Jesus whom ye did crucify.'

    Col 1:18 YLT And himself is the head of the body -- the assembly -- who is a beginning, a first-born out of the dead, that he might become in all things -- himself -- first,

    Out of the dead, the seed of David, the human, Jesus, conceived out of Spirit, is the Lord of David.

    That is my understanding of the Word of God.
     
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  6. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    @percho, note Hebrews 4:15 then go back to Hebrews 1:3 noting, ". . . upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, . . ." He while being fully that man, never ceased being fully God too.
     
  7. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I underlined a part of your quote. note

    IMHO Everything that is, IS, because from the beginning, that is previous to; In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen 1:1, God ('ĕlōhîm) the Word created for Son to be born of woman, to die and begotten out of the dead.

    Hebrews 1:1-2 In many parts, and many ways, God (the Word) of old having spoken to the fathers in the prophets, in these last days did speak (Word made flesh) to us in a Son (born of woman), whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He did make the ages;

    See, appointed heir of all things, literally I think, "all".

    Question? Is there a, point in time, when an heir becomes the inheritor? I will give to him the throne of his father David. from Luke 1:32 Does that take place in, a point in time?

    When did Jesus born of the virgin Mary become the inheritor of all things? When did he tell his disciples, And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Matt 28:18

    Do you think his resurrection out of the dead had anything to do with that statement?

    We are told he was made a little lower than the angles, because of the suffering of the death Heb 2:9 yet we are told in Heb 1:4 having become so much better than the messengers, as he did inherit a more excellent name than they.

    When did the heir, inherit? Next verse; For to which of the messengers said He ever, 'My Son thou art -- I to-day have begotten thee?' and again, 'I will be to him for a father, and he shall be to Me for a son?' See also Acts 13:33 God hath in full completed this to us their children, having raised up Jesus (out of the dead), as also in the second Psalm it hath been written, My Son thou art -- I to-day have begotten thee.

    Always keeping in mind that before the foundation of the world Christ was going to shed his precious blood, die, for redemption. Before the foundation of the world God through a virgin woman (unblemished and unspotted), was going to send Son into the world to die.
     
  8. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    The Son is the Word. The Word became flesh. John 1:14. ,John 1:10. John 1:18. Revelation 19:13.
    Revelation 11:15.
     
  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Colossians 1:15 and Colossians 1:18, Revelation 1:5 and Revelation 3:14. He is the beginning of the New Heaven and Earth with Him being the firstfruit(s) 1 Corinthians 15:20. 1 Corinthians 15:23. Revelation 20:4-6.

     
    #9 37818, Nov 9, 2021
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2021
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