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If Jesus died for all, and all are not saved, how are people saved?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by 1689Dave, Nov 18, 2021.

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  1. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Some go about attacking Limited Atonement but they don't spell out how people are saved when universal atonement doesn't save one soul. So, how are people saved?
     
    #1 1689Dave, Nov 18, 2021
  2. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    I was reading an article on "Particular Atonement" at Ligonier.org, and John 10 is used to support this view. What other passages are used to defend this view? I don't doubt this view, but I'm trying to understand it better. I appreciate the way you explain things.
     
    #2 Lodic, Nov 18, 2021
  3. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    If Jesus died for all and all are not saved, His death didn't save anyone. So the Universalists turn the gospel into law and grace into works, saying people must save themselves through obedience.

    But Limited Atonement means Christ actually saved the elect by paying for their sins on the cross. This means God can justly treat us as though we never sinned. This means our salvation is secure since it depends on Christ and not on us. Universalists must save themselves through obedience until they die, never having the assurance of salvation since it depends on the flesh.
     
    #3 1689Dave, Nov 18, 2021
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  4. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    Many verses prove it. Jesus did not pray for the world, but only those the Father gave to him (to save). God hardened the Pharisee's hearts so they could not believe and be saved. He shed His blood for many. This cancels out universalism. Isaiah says He died for many. He purchased the church with His blood which also disproves universalism since the Church is always few in number. If you learn how to spot it, it's easy to see. As many as were ordained to eternal life believed. (Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit)....etc. Jesus spoke in parables so they could not understand (believe).

    The Doctrine of Limited Atonement (8): Scriptural Proofs - Heidelberg Seminary
     
    #4 1689Dave, Nov 18, 2021
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    I am not understanding the supposed difficulty. Ephesians 2:5 and Ephesians 2:8. John 10:27-28. 1 John 5:1. 1 John 5:9-13. Etc.

    I need to read the link Particular Atonement | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org to understand the proposed difficulty.

    My understanding has been Christ's atonement was to be both Judge and Savior. Romans 8:34.
     
    #5 37818, Nov 18, 2021
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  6. 1689Dave

    1689Dave Well-Known Member

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    #6 1689Dave, Nov 18, 2021
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  7. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    My difficulty was in trying to "un-learn" universal atonement. The passages you used (especially from 1 John 5) were helpful. Thank you.
     
    #7 Lodic, Nov 18, 2021
  8. Lodic

    Lodic Well-Known Member

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    That link provided exactly what I was looking for. I read it through and now have a much better understanding of the Doctrine of Limited Atonement. I was especially enlightened by how the article explained how the purpose of Christ's work was the FULL salvation, not just the possibility of salvation. Thank you for your insight, and for the detailed explanation from that link. I appreciate your patience with me, and never act as if I am dense (even though I probably am at times).
     
    #8 Lodic, Nov 18, 2021
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  9. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    You are welcome. Be aware, I personally hold a view particular redemption is a sub set of the general redemption which I see as essential in order for there even to be the particular redemption. Noting in the general redemption lost Judas was a part of per Luke 22:20.
     
    #9 37818, Nov 18, 2021
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