'Seed to the sower and bread to the eater'

[kyredneck]

Do you not understand?

I understand that you're wearisome using the same old tired dishonest spin on the scriptures just to contradict and dispute the words of Christ.

[scroll]

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I understand that you're wearisome using the same old tired dishonest spin on the scriptures just to contradict and dispute the words of Christ.

[scroll]

I'll take that as a no, you don't understand then.

 

[tyndale1946]

Well gentlemen and brothers, I’m not trying to cause a rift and not between two men who have been kind enough to provide me with valuable instruction. All I was attempting to do is understand scriptural discourse that points to a bias for the Jewish people… see I struggle still with those scriptural references.

And excuse me Steve, but I’m not quite sure why you would use “Dispensationalism” as a reference point? I’ve known KRN for a while and I’ve never seen him even remotely move in that direction. Let’s all agree then to our shared Christian principles, ie the Lord is creator and sovereign, we Gentiles have been grafted into the vine, adopted into the family. Furthermore, regeneration is a work of God by which a spiritually dead human being is brought to life in Christ ( John 5:24), having been given a new nature in which what was once a heart of stone now becomes a heart of flesh…praise God!

Kentucky... Dispy Martin???... Pardon me while I... ... Brother Glen

 

[SavedByGrace]

Mark 16:16, Jesus plainly states, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved".

so what does Jesus go on to say? "but he who disbelieves will be condemned". Water baptism saves no one, neither is it a condition for salvation!

 

[SavedByGrace]

"Why preach if only the born-again can discern the truth in it?"

the Bible never says anywhere, that the Gospel for salvation, is to be preached to those who are "born again". These are ALREADY saved, because they are BORN AGAIN!

The Gospel is to be preached to the WHOLE OF CREATION, as in THE HUMAN RACE, as Jesus says in Mark 16:15, "He said to them, “Go into all the world, and preach the Good News to the whole creation"

 

[kyredneck]

so what does Jesus go on to say? "but he who disbelieves will be condemned". Water baptism saves no one, neither is it a condition for salvation!

Mark 16:16, Jesus plainly states, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved".

You've a problem with this only because of your distorted take of 'sozo'. I've no problem at all because I know Christ's primary intent is not 'saved from eternity in hell', it's 'saved from the wrath to come upon this generation'. Water baptism was a public profession of faith for the Jews of that generation which was essential for them to 'save themselves' from the wrath of Matthew 23:35-36, Luke 21:20-32, Hebrews 10:27, Revelation 18:4, etc...

7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said unto them, Ye offspring of vipers, who warned you to flee from the wrath to come? Mt 3

38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39 For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

...to cite a few...

 

[kyredneck]

so what does Jesus go on to say? "but he who disbelieves will be condemned". Water baptism saves no one, neither is it a condition for salvation!

Maybe in your imagination, but in no way does the latter part of that statement negate the necessity of baptism to be 'saved' from the wrath that was soon to come upon apostate Judaism.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

 

[kyredneck]

the Bible never says anywhere, that the Gospel for salvation, is to be preached to those who are "born again". These are ALREADY saved, because they are BORN AGAIN!

'Saved' [sozo] has to be interpreted on an individual basis, Most applications of the word are intended other than in the eternal sense. Mainstream Christianity has gommed the word up to be synonymous with regeneration or born from above when it is correctly to be understood as 'made whole', delivered, rescued, made safe in this temporal realm. Lost sheep become saved sheep when they come home to the kingdom through obedience to the gospel here on earth. No matter what they do they will always be His sheep.

If your interpretation of sozo is correct then one absolutely must be water baptized to go to heaven:

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39
For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

 

[kyredneck]

"He said to them, “Go into all the world, and preach the Good News to the whole creation"

If you believe the scriptures, fulfilled before the NT was even completed. Before THAT GENERATION had passed away:

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all these things be accomplished. Mt 24

So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ. But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world. Ro 10:17-18

5 because of the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,
6 which is come unto you; even as it is also in all the world bearing fruit and increasing, as it doth in you also, since the day ye heard and knew the grace of God in truth;
23 if so be that ye continue in the faith, grounded and stedfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel which ye heard, which was preached in all creation under heaven; whereof I Paul was made a minister. Col 1

25 Now to him that is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which hath been kept in silence through times eternal,
26 but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations unto obedience of faith: Ro 16

It was actually fulfilled at Pentecost, 'the gospel bomb':

5 Now there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, from every nation under heaven.
8 And how hear we, every man in our own language wherein we were born? Acts 2

 

[SavedByGrace]

'Saved' [sozo] has to be interpreted on an individual basis, Most applications of the word are intended other than in the eternal sense. Mainstream Christianity has gommed the word up to be synonymous with regeneration or born from above when it is correctly to be understood as 'made whole', delivered, rescued, made safe in this temporal realm. Lost sheep become saved sheep when they come home to the kingdom through obedience to the gospel here on earth. No matter what they do they will always be His sheep.

If your interpretation of sozo is correct then one absolutely must be water baptized to go to heaven:

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

38 And Peter said unto them, Repent ye, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ unto the remission of your sins; and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
39
For to you is the promise, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call unto him.
40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water:
21 which also after a true likeness doth now save you, even baptism, not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the interrogation of a good conscience toward God, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ; 1 Pet 3

Can I suggest that we have a new thread on "Is Water Baptism a Requirement for Salvation"? As this thread is not the place

 

[SavedByGrace]

Maybe in your imagination, but in no way does the latter part of that statement negate the necessity of baptism to be 'saved' from the wrath that was soon to come upon apostate Judaism.

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

Jesus is here talking about eternal salvation, as the previous verse is clear it is the preaching of the Gospel Message. This passage has got nothing to do with the destruction of Jerusalem, or the falling of the Jews! You are forcing your views into Scripture again!

 

[kyredneck]

Can I suggest that we have a new thread on "Is Water Baptism a Requirement for Salvation"?

You're still not 'getting it'. The thread topic should be 'What does sozo mean'?

 

[kyredneck]

Jesus is here talking about eternal salvation,

If He is then water baptism is just as essential to 'the formula' as faith and repentance in order to 'go to heaven'.

is clear it is the preaching of the Gospel Message.

So? What?

This passage has got nothing to do with the destruction of Jerusalem, or the falling of the Jews! You are forcing your views into Scripture again!

Wrong. It has everything to do with it.