Flaws of Arminianism

[RipponRedeaux]

If one has come to Jesus, that one has become elected

The elect do not become elected in their lifetime. They were elected before the foundation of the world. See Ephesians 1:4.

 

[robycop3]

It seems you reject all scripture, except the word "whoever" where you interpret that word to mean a universal all...even though the context (which I gave you) shows you that the whoever is limited to those whom God chooses to cause them to be born again.
All the entirety of the Bible is ignored by you as you cling to a word, which you don't even correctly understand.
roby, we call that narrow-minded thinking on your part. You are rejecting the Bible for one word that you incorrectly interpret. No one can help you. You would rather accuse God of creating robots than admit you misunderstand how John has applied the word "whosoever."
You, sir, have a big problem to resolve and even worse, you won't even acknowledge you have a problem.

Ephesians 1:3-11

All praise to God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ. Even before he made the world, God loved us and chose us in Christ to be holy and without fault in his eyes. God decided in advance to adopt us into his own family by bringing us to himself through Jesus Christ. This is what he wanted to do, and it gave him great pleasure. So we praise God for the glorious grace he has poured out on us who belong to his dear Son. He is so rich in kindness and grace that he purchased our freedom with the blood of his Son and forgave our sins. He has showered his kindness on us, along with all wisdom and understanding. God has now revealed to us his mysterious plan regarding Christ, a plan to fulfill his own good pleasure. And this is the plan: At the right time he will bring everything together under the authority of Christ—everything in heaven and on earth. Furthermore, because we are united with Christ, we have received an inheritance from God, for he chose us in advance, and he makes everything work out according to his plan.

The problem is YOURS in believing man-made hooey. You've shown that in other threads. And now you're believing someone's twist of plain Scripture.

Remember, Jesus said He knocks at the door, and if one opens the door, He will come in & sup with him. Nowhere does He say He will kick the door in. It takes the conscious action of the "occupant" to get up & open the door to admit Him.

Is salvation impossible for Kim Jong-Un? Vladimir Putin? Xi Jenping? While not likely, IS IT IMPOSSIBLE ????????

 

[robycop3]

The elect do not become elected in their lifetime. They were elected before the foundation of the world. See Ephesians 1:4.

"WHOEVER...WHOEVER...WHOEVER"

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Remember, Jesus said He knocks at the door, and if one opens the door, He will come in & sup with him. Nowhere does He say He will kick the door in. It takes the conscious action of the "occupant" to get up & open the door to admit Him.

Remember, those he addresses in Rev. 3:20 are Christians. These folks from Laodicea were weak believers; yet nonetheless believers.

I don't know why you are using the metaphor of Christ kicking the door in. Perhaps it's your lack of an argument.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

"WHOEVER...WHOEVER...WHOEVER"

For he chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will. (Eph. 1:4,5 NIV)

Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad --in order that God's purpose in election might stand. (Romans 9:11 NIV)

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Salvation is open to all, but not many accept it. Some have more opportunity than others.

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. (Ro. 9:18 NIV)

 

[agedman]

You did fine with your paraphrasing. But again, the Scriptures read "whoever". Salvation is open to all, but not many accept it. Some have more opportunity than others. And the prayers of righteous people avail much.

The light shined on all, so you are correct in that opportunity is given. However, the “acceptance,” the authority, right, power, is only given to those who do nothing. They do not turn from the light. Rather those “whoever” dwell, remain, bask in the light are redeemed by the power of God.

Perhaps Romans is also a good place to investigate, for there it tells how every person has the law implanted and evidence shown of God to them, but they reject and flaunt rebellion.

 

[AustinC]

If one has come to Jesus, that one has become elected. Predestination for all simply isn't true.

Nope. Honestly, your phrasing here makes the coming to Jesus a work of man that is graceless. Your concept of election is: "merited actions of men get them elected by God."
Such a teaching is never taught in the Bible, but here you teach it. That should make you shudder if you grasp the implications of what you have proclaimed.
Moreso, you reject the teaching of predestination found in the Bible.
roby, consider what you are teaching and turn away from it. You are going down a path not compatible with God's word.

 

[robycop3]

Remember, those he addresses in Rev. 3:20 are Christians. These folks from Laodicea were weak believers; yet nonetheless believers.

I don't know why you are using the metaphor of Christ kicking the door in. Perhaps it's your lack of an argument.

It's PART of the argument. Jesus is omnipresent, & anyone wanting to accept Him & believe in Him is free to do so, repenting of sin & calling on Him by name for salvation.

 

[robycop3]

For he chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will. (Eph. 1:4,5 NIV)

Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad --in order that God's purpose in election might stand. (Romans 9:11 NIV)

Yes, He pre-elects some, as I've mentioned before, but most will hafta choose to come to Him & be elected.

 

[robycop3]

Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden. (Ro. 9:18 NIV)

"WHOEVER...WHOEVER...WHOEVER"

 

[robycop3]

The light shined on all, so you are correct in that opportunity is given. However, the “acceptance,” the authority, right, power, is only given to those who do nothing. They do not turn from the light. Rather those “whoever” dwell, remain, bask in the light are redeemed by the power of God.

Perhaps Romans is also a good place to investigate, for there it tells how every person has the law implanted and evidence shown of God to them, but they reject and flaunt rebellion.

Prime examples are the Pharisees who saw many of His miracles, but thought more of their office & religious ceremonies than they did of the Son of God & thus attributed His miracles to some other source, such as Satan.

 

[robycop3]

Nope. Honestly, your phrasing here makes the coming to Jesus a work of man that is graceless. Your concept of election is: "merited actions of men get them elected by God."
Such a teaching is never taught in the Bible, but here you teach it. That should make you shudder if you grasp the implications of what you have proclaimed.
Moreso, you reject the teaching of predestination found in the Bible.
roby, consider what you are teaching and turn away from it. You are going down a path not compatible with God's word.

No, my path is not compatible with the inventions of man that you embrace.

 

[agedman]

Prime examples are the Pharisees who saw many of His miracles, but thought more of their office & religious ceremonies than they did of the Son of God & thus attributed His miracles to some other source, such as Satan.

This is so very true, yet do not the Scripture indicate that many pharisees and scribes believed secretly, but feared the leadership. I have a Godly christian brother who daily has to work among those hostel to the Way, and more often is grieved that he is not more openly contending for the faith.

On the other side, within the circles that one should perhaps be able to trust the motivations of others it is sad to admit that many christian leaders place station and pride above loyalty to the Lord Jesus Christ. I know that was evidenced in the late C.W. Criswell, Jack Hyles, Jerry Falwell and sons, ...

I know you have witnessed this also, for it is not uncommon to watch the body language of the prominent and recognize the motivation. One reason I so enjoy reading of John was because of his motivation of love for the Savior and for the people.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

It's PART of the argument. Jesus is omnipresent, & anyone wanting to accept Him & believe in Him is free to do so, repenting of sin & calling on Him by name for salvation.

No one, of their own accord is willing to come. No one in their mortal flesh desires to come. God the Holy Spirit, to speak in your vernacular, gives them the want-to.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

Yes, He pre-elects some, as I've mentioned before, but most will hafta choose to come to Him & be elected.

There is no such thing as 're-elects' or 'pre-selects.' As I have shown you from Scripture, election took place before the foundations of the world were laid. That doesn't mean that those people were born saved. They are workers of iniquity --just like the reprobate.

 

[RipponRedeaux]

"WHOEVER...WHOEVER...WHOEVER"

I quoted Romans 9:18 and you respond with your whosoever gibberish. Do you believe Romans 9:18 or not?

 

[agedman]

Some think that because the Scriptures teach that God has selected and predesignated some to salvation, that in doing so He has also predestined some to eternal fire. This is a false understanding of Scripture.

The Scriptures teach that ALL have sinned, therefore, ALL are condemned already. God doesn't have to predestine/predesignate some to eternal flames, all are already destined for such a place.

The Scriptures teach that while ALL were yet sinners Christ died. The Scriptures teach that the blood removed all iniquity from the equation separating man from God. Christ was victorious over all. Yet the abundance of blood does not benefit the unbeliever, for there is no resurrection to eternal life as a new creation for the unbeliever.

The Scriptures also teach that the one who rejects the Christ does so actively. That is there is forceful and willful rebellion, not some inactive and passive non-compliance, but "No! God." Then if that were not enough, the person goes about replacing God with their own human conjuring and construction.

Is it no wonder then that the Scriptures indicate the election and predestination in statements such as "All the Father gives me, will come to me?'"

Such Scriptures present the unbeliever who is designated by the Father to be redeemed by the redeemer. That the Scriptures stand which state, "There is no other name under heaven whereby one must be saved," and again, "...no one comes to the Father but by me," and other such statements.

Therefore, double predestination as well as human will salvation are both not Scriptural but are presented as if being factual.

Predestination and election are taught in the Scriptures and as such need to be a part of our own thinking.

 

[agedman]

This post is to no one yet everyone as merely an observation from my own life encounters.

I noticed that typically the teaching of election and predestination are remarkably weaker in presentation with those who hold closer to an Arminian view.

For the longest this puzzled me, until I began to realize that when one moves closer to human volition as a major determination in salvation, then the presentations of election and predestination must also be weakened to accommodate the human will.

 

[Marooncat79]

Let’s see if this gets deleted


Acts 5:31

If the Christ-centeredness of Acts 4:12 is not sufficiently monergistic, Acts 5:31 begins to fill in the details: the exalted Lord gives repentance.

31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Acts 11:18

God’s salvation comes to the Gentiles, just like it came to the Jews—God granted repentance that leads to life.

18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, “Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life.”

Acts 13:47–48

After Luke records Paul’s sermon in Acts, he reports how the Gentiles heard the Gospel and believed. But instead of leaving it there, he also declares that those who believed were the one’s God appointed to believe (cf. Eph. 1:4–6; Rom. 9:1–23; 1 Thess. 1:5).

47 For so the Lord has commanded us, saying, “ ‘I have made you a light for the Gentiles, that you may bring salvation to the ends of the earth.’ ” 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.

Acts 16:14

Moving from the doctrine of election in Acts 13:48, we spot the doctrine of regeneration in Acts 16:14. Lydia responded in faith, because the Lord opened her heart.

14 One who heard us was a woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple goods, who was a worshiper of God. The Lord opened her heart to pay attention to what was said by Paul.