Once again the fictional gift of faith is falsely claimed. Note the reference to 1 Corinthians 12:9, which discusses the gifts of the Holy Spirit to those who are the body of Christ, thus already saved, is claimed by innuendo to include the gift of faith to believe to those unsaved.
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Flaws of Arminianism
- Thread starter Van
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The words in italics are partial quotes and paraphrases from “Arminian Articles of Remonstrance”
Jacob (James) Arminius taught that after the fall, mankind was totally depraved, unable by nature to do anything really good. But rather than solve this issue by the unconditional choice (election) of individuals by God and then enabling them to trust in God via irresistible grace, Arminius solved the apparent dilemma of individual election before a person comes to faith by asserting God’s foresight into the nature of some persons, and thus according to Arminius God elected those of foreseen faith to salvation before the world began. To get around supposed spiritual inability, God granted grace to all men so they could respond (accept or reject) the gospel. Those that accept are the very same ones that God foresaw would accept, and therefore Arminius works man’s freewill into the equation. In sum, this view is closer to what the bible actually teaches than Calvinism.
Rather than irresistible grace, we have resistible grace; rather than unconditional election of foreseen individuals, we have conditional election of foreseen individuals foreseen to come to faith by their own free will.
Arminian teachings were summarized as follows:
1. God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. This is election by foreseen faith. (The underlying biblical truth that makes this view false is God chooses those whose faith He credits as righteousness during their lifetime, not before creation.)
2. Christ died for all men (not just for the supposed pre-selected elect individuals), but no one except the believer has remission of sin. (True.)
3. Man cannot do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. (Scripture says the unsaved can give good gifts to their kids, so discernment and choice is taught as a capability of the unsaved, limited as it is in that nothing the unsaved can do will result in earning salvation. If the point is in support of mystic mind manipulation (resistible grace) being necessary in order to overcome Total Spiritual Inability to enable us to place our faith in Christ, it is a false premise. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that the unregenerate can believe in God and seek God yet be turned away by false teachings.)
4. All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God but his grace is not irresistible. (If we do something good, it was enabled by God’s grace, if something sinful, it is all on us, God’s grace did not cause it. True)
5. Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it may be possible for a believer to fall from grace. ( Those incorporated into Christ are incorporated by God, after He credits our faith as righteousness. Scripture plainly says that it is not possible to become unsaved, but is possible to believe you are saved and then fall away from your “faith.” For people will say, “Lord, Lord” but Christ will say, “I never knew you” (Matthew 7:22-23.) Note “never”, not “I knew you once but no more.” 1 John 2:19 says that those who went out from us were not of us, again teaching those who fall away were never born anew.)
In summary, Arminius formulated his doctrine to address his understanding of the flawed doctrine associated with John Calvin. He is on target in that he recognized something was amiss, but by framing his response based on acceptance of some of the underlying false premises of Calvin, his solution, like fruit from a corrupt tree, is unpalatable.
The biblical position is summarized as follows:
1. God chose the Word before creation to be the Lamb of God, and therefore anyone spiritually placed into Christ shares in His election before the foundation of the world. God’s plan for salvation was thus formulated before creation, and therefore anyone chosen and spiritually placed in Christ is chosen according to God’s foreknowledge of His salvation program, (1 Peter 1:2). Hence, He chose us in Him corporately before the foundation of the world, (Ephesians 1:4).
2. Christ died for all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6), becoming the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world (1 John 2:2), but only those who God credits their faith in Christ as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5; 4:23-24) are then spiritually placed in Christ by God (1 Corinthians 1:30), and receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice (Romans 5:10-11). Thus we are saved by grace through faith and not by the will or actions of men. Ephesians 2:8-9.
3. Our individual election occurs when God chooses us to be a member of His family, after we are alive and have lived without mercy, 1 Peter 2:9-10. He chooses those who are rich in faith and love God (James 2:5), who believe in Christ (John 3:16). We are chosen by God placing us into Christ (the sanctification by the Spirit) 2 Thessalonians 2:13, after He credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5; 4:23-24. Our faith in Christ provides our access to God’s saving grace, Romans 5:2.
Jacob (James) Arminius taught that after the fall, mankind was totally depraved, unable by nature to do anything really good. But rather than solve this issue by the unconditional choice (election) of individuals by God and then enabling them to trust in God via irresistible grace, Arminius solved the apparent dilemma of individual election before a person comes to faith by asserting God’s foresight into the nature of some persons, and thus according to Arminius God elected those of foreseen faith to salvation before the world began. To get around supposed spiritual inability, God granted grace to all men so they could respond (accept or reject) the gospel. Those that accept are the very same ones that God foresaw would accept, and therefore Arminius works man’s freewill into the equation. In sum, this view is closer to what the bible actually teaches than Calvinism.
Rather than irresistible grace, we have resistible grace; rather than unconditional election of foreseen individuals, we have conditional election of foreseen individuals foreseen to come to faith by their own free will.
Arminian teachings were summarized as follows:
1. God has decreed to save through Jesus Christ those of the fallen and sinful race who through the grace of the Holy Spirit believe in him, but leaves in sin the incorrigible and unbelieving. This is election by foreseen faith. (The underlying biblical truth that makes this view false is God chooses those whose faith He credits as righteousness during their lifetime, not before creation.)
2. Christ died for all men (not just for the supposed pre-selected elect individuals), but no one except the believer has remission of sin. (True.)
3. Man cannot do anything truly good until he is born again of God, in Christ, through the Holy Spirit. (Scripture says the unsaved can give good gifts to their kids, so discernment and choice is taught as a capability of the unsaved, limited as it is in that nothing the unsaved can do will result in earning salvation. If the point is in support of mystic mind manipulation (resistible grace) being necessary in order to overcome Total Spiritual Inability to enable us to place our faith in Christ, it is a false premise. Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that the unregenerate can believe in God and seek God yet be turned away by false teachings.)
4. All good deeds or movements in the regenerate must be ascribed to the grace of God but his grace is not irresistible. (If we do something good, it was enabled by God’s grace, if something sinful, it is all on us, God’s grace did not cause it. True)
5. Those who are incorporated into Christ by a true faith have power given them through the assisting grace of the Holy Spirit to persevere in the faith. But it may be possible for a believer to fall from grace. ( Those incorporated into Christ are incorporated by God, after He credits our faith as righteousness. Scripture plainly says that it is not possible to become unsaved, but is possible to believe you are saved and then fall away from your “faith.” For people will say, “Lord, Lord” but Christ will say, “I never knew you” (Matthew 7:22-23.) Note “never”, not “I knew you once but no more.” 1 John 2:19 says that those who went out from us were not of us, again teaching those who fall away were never born anew.)
In summary, Arminius formulated his doctrine to address his understanding of the flawed doctrine associated with John Calvin. He is on target in that he recognized something was amiss, but by framing his response based on acceptance of some of the underlying false premises of Calvin, his solution, like fruit from a corrupt tree, is unpalatable.
The biblical position is summarized as follows:
1. God chose the Word before creation to be the Lamb of God, and therefore anyone spiritually placed into Christ shares in His election before the foundation of the world. God’s plan for salvation was thus formulated before creation, and therefore anyone chosen and spiritually placed in Christ is chosen according to God’s foreknowledge of His salvation program, (1 Peter 1:2). Hence, He chose us in Him corporately before the foundation of the world, (Ephesians 1:4).
2. Christ died for all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6), becoming the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world (1 John 2:2), but only those who God credits their faith in Christ as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5; 4:23-24) are then spiritually placed in Christ by God (1 Corinthians 1:30), and receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice (Romans 5:10-11). Thus we are saved by grace through faith and not by the will or actions of men. Ephesians 2:8-9.
3. Our individual election occurs when God chooses us to be a member of His family, after we are alive and have lived without mercy, 1 Peter 2:9-10. He chooses those who are rich in faith and love God (James 2:5), who believe in Christ (John 3:16). We are chosen by God placing us into Christ (the sanctification by the Spirit) 2 Thessalonians 2:13, after He credits our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:4-5; 4:23-24. Our faith in Christ provides our access to God’s saving grace, Romans 5:2.
1) Did anyone say people have the ability to respond to the gospel "correctly?" How about if the lost respond incorrectly but God credits their flawed faith as righteousness?
2) Did anyone say people come to "saving faith?" Or do people come to faith in Christ and God chooses to credit some of those faiths as righteousness?
3) Does "God's work" on our behalf involve:
a) Christ's death? Yes
b) Christ's resurrection? Yes
c) Setting up a "framework whereby we are now free to come to Christ? Nope
d) Is all the spiritual ability we need to trust in Christ given to us as humans? Yes
Can anyone "come to Christ" unless allowed by God? Nope
Can anyone come to Christ unless drawn by the Father? Nope
Can anyone come to Christ unless they have heard and learned from the Father? Nope
2) Did anyone say people come to "saving faith?" Or do people come to faith in Christ and God chooses to credit some of those faiths as righteousness?
3) Does "God's work" on our behalf involve:
a) Christ's death? Yes
b) Christ's resurrection? Yes
c) Setting up a "framework whereby we are now free to come to Christ? Nope
d) Is all the spiritual ability we need to trust in Christ given to us as humans? Yes
Can anyone "come to Christ" unless allowed by God? Nope
Can anyone come to Christ unless drawn by the Father? Nope
Can anyone come to Christ unless they have heard and learned from the Father? Nope
Calvinists claim being spiritually dead means having total spiritual inability. But, again, that is obviously false doctrine, as the people of Matthew 23:13 had some spiritual ability even though being spiritually dead. I define being spiritually dead as being spiritually separated from our holy God because the lost are unholy. Here it is in a nutshell - separated from God = spiritually dead, united with God, (i.e. together with God) results in being made "alive" thus not spiritually dead.
Since the lost have limited spiritual ability, able to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food, there is no basis for the invention of "irresistible grace" or "prevenient grace" to overcome a non-existent condition.
Our individual election is by way of our faith as credited by God. Numerous verses clearly point to our being chosen for salvation through or by way of our faith being credited as righteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:5, etc.
Arminianism is correct or nearly correct on at least two points, Christ died for all humanity and God's choice of individuals for salvation is conditioned on accepting their faith, not foreseen faith.
Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that the unregenerate can believe in God and seek God yet be turned away by false teachings.
Christ died for all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6), becoming the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world (1 John 2:2), but only those who God credits their faith in Christ as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5; 4:23-24) are then spiritually placed in Christ by God (1 Corinthians 1:30), and receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice (Romans 5:10-11). Thus we are saved by grace through faith and not by the will or actions of men. Ephesians 2:8-9.
Since the lost have limited spiritual ability, able to understand spiritual milk but not spiritual solid food, there is no basis for the invention of "irresistible grace" or "prevenient grace" to overcome a non-existent condition.
Our individual election is by way of our faith as credited by God. Numerous verses clearly point to our being chosen for salvation through or by way of our faith being credited as righteousness. 2 Thessalonians 2:13, James 2:5, etc.
Arminianism is correct or nearly correct on at least two points, Christ died for all humanity and God's choice of individuals for salvation is conditioned on accepting their faith, not foreseen faith.
Matthew 23:13 demonstrates that the unregenerate can believe in God and seek God yet be turned away by false teachings.
Christ died for all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6), becoming the propitiation (means of salvation) for the whole world (1 John 2:2), but only those who God credits their faith in Christ as righteousness (Romans 4:4-5; 4:23-24) are then spiritually placed in Christ by God (1 Corinthians 1:30), and receive the reconciliation provided by Christ’s sacrifice (Romans 5:10-11). Thus we are saved by grace through faith and not by the will or actions of men. Ephesians 2:8-9.
One question seems to be whether God would not credit a person's faith. Why this question is asked is hard to fathom. Were those who had faith and said "Lord, Lord" in Matthew 7 saved? Nope. How about in Matthew 13 and soils #2 and #3? Was their "faith" credited as righteousness? Nope. So why ask the question? To throw up a smokescreen of strawman arguments? Looks like it!
Is God "passive" before He credits a believer's faith as righteousness? Of course not. How about God "allowing" a person to trust in Christ? How about drawing a person? How about God's revelatory grace? And so it goes.
Did I say "God's work?" Nope. Did I say false teachers can prevent people in the process of entering the Kingdom from entering? You bet, because that is what Jesus says in Matthew 23:13.
Next, once saved, always saved is claimed to enable a false teaching, again without any specific mention of the false teaching. Innuendo is the stock and trade of false teachers. First they imply something, then claim they never said it. Go figure.
False teachers denies the concept of "corporate election" being "found in scriptures." However, Dr. Dan B. Wallace says both individual and corporate elections are "intertwined" in Paul's writings. Next, it was falsely claimed corporate elections are comprised of individual elections. This bogus claim demonstrates either ignorance and ignominy. If I go to the store to buy oranges, I do not first select the individual oranges, and then choose those. Nope, I go to the orange bin, and reach in, thus my corporate election of oranges is completed before I choose a single one. But this denial of the obvious is posted over and over.
Finally the falsehood of the "measure of faith" supposedly referring to the fictional "gift of faith" is once again regurgitated. The actual phrase refers to the area of ministry given to each member of the body of Christ.
Did I say "God's work?" Nope. Did I say false teachers can prevent people in the process of entering the Kingdom from entering? You bet, because that is what Jesus says in Matthew 23:13.
Next, once saved, always saved is claimed to enable a false teaching, again without any specific mention of the false teaching. Innuendo is the stock and trade of false teachers. First they imply something, then claim they never said it. Go figure.
False teachers denies the concept of "corporate election" being "found in scriptures." However, Dr. Dan B. Wallace says both individual and corporate elections are "intertwined" in Paul's writings. Next, it was falsely claimed corporate elections are comprised of individual elections. This bogus claim demonstrates either ignorance and ignominy. If I go to the store to buy oranges, I do not first select the individual oranges, and then choose those. Nope, I go to the orange bin, and reach in, thus my corporate election of oranges is completed before I choose a single one. But this denial of the obvious is posted over and over.
Finally the falsehood of the "measure of faith" supposedly referring to the fictional "gift of faith" is once again regurgitated. The actual phrase refers to the area of ministry given to each member of the body of Christ.
Some among the Pharisees feared that they would be targeted if came out openly for Jesus, same way among Muslims today who get saved!
Lost sinners do not have inherit saving faith within themselves
Van
why do you not interact with all of the passages from Acts instead of posting your opinions
your opinions are at odds with Gods Word
So again Van
why do you kick against Gods Word?
why do you not interact with all of the passages from Acts instead of posting your opinions
your opinions are at odds with Gods Word
So again Van
why do you kick against Gods Word?
Welcome SOL,
Welcome to the B B.
You have correctly identified the posted errors that are often offered by misguided persons. It is shocking how often they appear, but fortunately, it is a small handful of posters who just repeat the same errors.
You have only spoken the truth about the broken error of these posters.
Another open denial of scripture. Shameful.
Here is a false gospel that is no gospel at all but will be presented non stop.
Can you prove it wrong? Of course not.
Can you prove Jesus didn't mean "whoever" when He said "whoever"? Of course not.
37818
Well-Known Member
Faith comes from hearing truth. Basic Christian epistemology. Romans 10:17-18. [John 17:17]
No one knows anything without believing it in some way.
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