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Is salvation available?

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atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
When the sinner repents and believes they are meant to live holy and blameless lives for which they have been predestined
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That is a temporal paradox ... when an event happens in the future (I repent) it triggers an event in the past (I am destined to repent and be saved). That is contrary to the definition of the word "pre-destined" and would be more accurately described as "retroactively-destined".

I do not believe that such a teaching can be supported by scripture in general or the meaning of "predestined".

There are names which "are in" the Book of Life and names that "are not written" in the Book of Life and warnings about names being "blotted out" of the Book of Life, but I am unaware of anything that suggests names being daily added to the Book of Life (as new souls repent).

Your heterodox teaching seems to lack Biblical support, but it is for you to "prove" your teaching. I suggest a new topic to lay it out clearly from scripture how the present is constantly changing eternity past.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
That is a temporal paradox ... when an event happens in the future (I repent) it triggers an event in the past (I am destined to repent and be saved). That is contrary to the definition of the word "pre-destined" and would be more accurately described as "retroactively-destined".

I do not believe that such a teaching can be supported by scripture in general or the meaning of "predestined".

There are names which "are in" the Book of Life and names that "are not written" in the Book of Life and warnings about names being "blotted out" of the Book of Life, but I am unaware of anything that suggests names being daily added to the Book of Life (as new souls repent).

Your heterodox teaching seems to lack Biblical support, but it is for you to "prove" your teaching. I suggest a new topic to lay it out clearly from scripture how the present is constantly changing eternity past.
Click to expand...

I will answer more when I get back home as I am on my mobile
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Reformed1689 said:
5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will
The Holy Bible: English Standard Version (Wheaton, IL: Crossway Bibles, 2016), Eph 1:5.
Click to expand...

Verse 4 says

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Ephesians 1: 4

Which is post conversion
 
atpollard

atpollard

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
When the sinner repents and believes they are meant to live holy and blameless lives for which they have been predestined
Click to expand...
That is NOT what Ephesians SAYS.
Nowhere does it say "predestined to live" (anything).
We were predestined to a state of being ...
  • be holy and without blame
  • adoption as sons
  • accepted
  • alive
  • saved
  • His workmanship
... and it is BECAUSE of this state of being that we are "created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them".
 
Reformed1689

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
SavedByGrace said:
Verse 4 says

even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love
Ephesians 1: 4

Which is post conversion
Click to expand...
Only the second half is post. You still ignore verse five. Why? I think it is because you know it destroys your ridiculous argument.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
atpollard said:
That is NOT what Ephesians SAYS.
Nowhere does it say "predestined to live" (anything).
We were predestined to a state of being ...
  • be holy and without blame
  • adoption as sons
  • accepted
  • alive
  • saved
  • His workmanship
... and it is BECAUSE of this state of being that we are "created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them".
Click to expand...

The doctrine of salvation is not based on one passage from the Bible. There are many to be considered
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Do not get sidetracked by dozens of subject change posts, here is the unanswered question:

Do the lost, living today, have an opportunity for salvation, or is the outcome of their life a foregone conclusion?

Calvinist doctrine says "a foregone conclusion" but scripture says the opportunity for salvation is the good news for the lost.

Two very different gospels...
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
DaveXR650 said:
Yes. And John 3:16 means exactly what it says.
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Your answer is biblical, but not Calvinist doctrine.

Calvinism = You were saved or damned from all eternity for all eternity and there is nothing you can do to alter that outcome of your life or for the lives of your loved ones. The gospel is good news for some and bad news for the rest...
 
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