Is salvation available?

[5 point Gillinist]

I gave you straight up what Christ said in Matthew 11 and Luke 10. Even though Jesus performed miracles in their midst, many did not believe and repent. You are you unwilling to admit your distortions of the Word of God because your ego won't allow it. Scripture is staring you right in the face Van. What is common knowledge among most Christians is denied by you. You don't know the Scriptures well enough to know that many Pharisees were present when Jesus performed his mighty miracles. Yet because their hearts were hardened they would not believe in him and certainly did not repent. When the scribes and Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign (i.e. miracles), no sign was to be given to them except the sign of Jonah.

The OT is filled with examples of miracles happening and people not believing. It also says in Deuteronomy 13 to measure miracles against God's word... almost as if the word is the most important thing.

 

[37818]

.. almost as if the word is the most important thing.

Deuteronomy 8:3, Matthew 4:4.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Is the New Covenant no different than the Old Covenant (Mosaic/Sinai Covenant)?
Again, I point you to Hebrews 9 and Hebrews 10 so you can see the good news that comes in the New Covenant. To say there is no difference is to admit ignorance.

As long as you teach a required human action being mandatory before God can extend his saving grace, you will be requiring works as the means of salvation. This is the same thing the Judaizers believed and the disciples. This is what lead to the dialogue I shared where Jesus declares "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Jesus tells you that your declaration of impossibility, without humans choosing to repent first, is incorrect. With God all things are possible.

You are fighting the Teachings of the Holy Bible

 

[Van]

The gospel is the power of God unto salvation, not seeing miracles.

Did anyone say or suggest seeing miracles is the power of God unto salvation? Nope - all Calvinism has is the change the topic ploy.

 

[Van]

Thank you for proving my point Van.

Another non-answer, another dodge. This is all Calvinism can do to avoid scriptural truth

 

[5 point Gillinist]

Did anyone say or suggest seeing miracles is the power of God unto salvation? Nope - all Calvinism has is the change the topic ploy.

You did, in the post I (and another) addressed.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

Another non-answer, another dodge. This is all Calvinism can do to avoid scriptural truth

You mean like how you dodged my point about your false premise?

 

[Van]

Van, here is the answer : YES
There is enough revealed in scripture to indicate that God is sovereign in everything, even salvation. God has graciously given us humans glimpses of that. But as far as I am concerned, as a Calvinist, everyone who is reached with the gospel has an opportunity to repent and believe. Those that refuse it are responsible for their choice. Those that do not get to hear the gospel are guilty for their own sins but we are part of the plan to reach them and can fail and be guilty of failing. There are some Calvinists on here who might freak out over that but all the Puritans are on my side on this as well as more modern Calvinists like Horatius Bonar, Charles Spurgeon, and moderns like John MacArthur and Paul Washer.

1) God is sovereign in that God causes or allows whatsoever comes to pass. God has not ordained whatsoever comes to pass.
2) Calvinism teaches everyone who is reached (is exposed to the message) does not have the opportunity to believe, because of their "total spiritual inability." Here we have a denial of Calvinism claimed to be Calvinism.
3) According to Calvinism those with the inability to understand and respond to the gospel are responsible for rejecting it. Go figure.
4) Because Calvinism claims the lost have no ability to choose righteousness, but are guilty because of God's predestined choices, demonstrates the absurdity of Calvinism.

 

[Van]

I gave you straight up what Christ said in Matthew 11 and Luke 10. Even though Jesus performed miracles in their midst, many did not believe and repent. You are you unwilling to admit your distortions of the Word of God because your ego won't allow it. Scripture is staring you right in the face Van. What is common knowledge among most Christians is denied by you. You don't know the Scriptures well enough to know that many Pharisees were present when Jesus performed his mighty miracles. Yet because their hearts were hardened they would not believe in him and certainly did not repent. When the scribes and Pharisees asked Jesus for a sign (i.e. miracles), no sign was to be given to them except the sign of Jonah.

More idiotic absurdity, nullifying scripture because of another verse's bogus interpretation.

 

[Van]

Noticed you didn't actually deal with my post.

One falsehood after another, one subject change after another...

 

[Van]

You mean like how you dodged my point about your false premise?

More change the subject to the poster and dodge the subject. This is all these folks have, falsehoods piled on absurdity.

 

[Van]

Calvinism = You were saved or damned from all eternity for all eternity and there is nothing you can do to alter that outcome of your life or for the lives of your loved ones. The gospel is good news for some and bad news for the rest..

Biblical Doctrine = Everyone believing in Christ (as decided by God crediting their faith as righteousness) will not perish but have everlasting life. Since if people had seen Christ's miracles, they would have repented, God has not predetermined who can respond to the gospel message.

The election of Ephesians 1:4 was corporate, not individual, because those chosen to be God's people, existed as not a people before they were a people. Thus 1 Peter 2:9-10 precludes an individual election for salvation before creation. Thus, we are chosen for salvation individually during our lifetime through faith in the truth. 2 Thessalonians 2:13. Therefore salvation is available to the lost and God has not precluded the opportunity.

Two very different gospels..

 

[Marooncat79]

John 12


37 But though he had done so many miracles before them, yet they believed not on him:

38 That the saying of Esaias the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spake, Lord, who hath believed our report? and to whom hath the arm of the Lord been revealed?

39 Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again,

40 He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

More idiotic absurdity, nullifying scripture because of another verse's bogus interpretation.

Now you're (more of) a hypocrite. Insulting someone, just like you (falsely) accused me of doing the other day. You should stop arguing theology online, and instead go repent.

 

[Van]

1) Does the bible say the gospel is foolishness to them that perish? Nope. It is foolishness to those who (1) have heard the gospel message, and (2) have rejected that message. This verse does not say none of the lost can hear and accept the gospel, the fictional bogus interpretation of Calvinism.

2) John 6:65 does not say God does not allow people to choose life, only that God does disallow some (like Judas) for His purpose.

3) To be "of God" refers to being open to God's word, but those "not of God" are not open to God's word. For example in Matthew 13, the first soil was not "of God" but the second, third and fourth soils were "of God." However, after hearing, the second and third soils did not deeply or fully embrace the gospel.

4) To be "of My Sheep" refers to being open to God's word, and those not of My sheep are not open to God's word.

5) "My sheep" are those God has placed into Christ, thus they belong to Christ, and Christ "knows" them. Different group than those "of My sheep."

6) Acts 13:48 indicates those that accepted the gospel direction to eternal life believed. No support for Calvinism in the verse.

Yes, the bible teaches over and over a very different gospel than the one proclaiming futility.

 

[Van]

Now you're (more of) a hypocrite. Insulting someone, just like you (falsely) accused me of doing the other day. You should stop arguing theology online, and instead go repent.

I did not insult anyone, I insulted the false doctrine of Calvinism.
OTOH, you tell me to repent, a straight-up attack on my character, rather than addressing the position.

 

[5 point Gillinist]

I did not insult anyone, I insulted the false doctrine of Calvinism.
OTOH, you tell me to repent, a straight-up attack on my character, rather than addressing the position.

Whatever you say Van, I hope you repent of your hypocrisy.

 

[Van]

Whatever you say Van, I hope you repent of your hypocrisy.

I hope you stop changing the subject to my behavior, and realize Calvinism is false doctrine.

If people would have repented had they seen Christ's miracles, they were not foreordained to reject the gospel. Thus Calvinism is false doctrine.

 

[Van]

BUT, WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO PUBLICLY ATTACK THE CHARACTER, PERSONHOOD OR MOTIVES OF ANOTHER MEMBER.

This includes, but is not limited to, statements such as:

• "You are just too stubborn to see things any other way"
• "Your hatred for me and my view is clouding your judgement"
• "Do you even know how to read?"
• "Clearly you are just obsessed with this topic."
• "Obviously you don't believe in the God of the bible."
• "You are a liar."
• "You are a heretic."
• "Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries."

Where you see "you are a ...." know that a forum rule violation is in evidence.

For example, you are a hypocrite, you are a coward, you are a false teacher or you are daft.

 

[atpollard]

Do the lost, living today, have an opportunity for salvation, or is the outcome of their life a foregone conclusion? Calvinism says "a foregone conclusion" but scripture says the kingdom of God is at hand.

You have answered incorrectly for "Calvinism". Calvinism states:
Ephesians 2: [NLT]

1 Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. 2 You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world. He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. 3 All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.

4 But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, 5 that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) 6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. 7 So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.​

So SOME lost, living today will be saved (better than "opportunity", it is a certainty) and MOST will not ("wide vs narrow" road) and GOD is difference, not the merit of any man (gift, less you should boast).