Is salvation available?

[Van]

These things Isaiah said because he saw His glory, and he spoke about Him.
Nevertheless many, even of the rulers, believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they were not confessing Him, so that they would not be excommunicated from the synagogue; for they loved the approval of people rather than the approval of God. (John 12 and the opportunity of salvation)

 

[Van]

You have answered incorrectly for "Calvinism". Calvinism states:
Ephesians 2: [NLT]

1 Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. 2 You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil—the commander of the powers in the unseen world.[fn] He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. 3 All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.

4 But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, 5 that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) 6 For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus. 7 So God can point to us in all future ages as examples of the incredible wealth of his grace and kindness toward us, as shown in all he has done for us who are united with Christ Jesus.

8 God saved you by his grace when you believed. And you can’t take credit for this; it is a gift from God. 9 Salvation is not a reward for the good things we have done, so none of us can boast about it. 10 For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.​

So SOME lost, living today will be saved (better than "opportunity", it is a certainty) and MOST will not ("wide vs narrow" road) and GOD is difference, not the merit of any man (gift, less you should boast).

I answered correctly concerning Calvinism's doctrine that God has ordained (predestined) whatsoever comes to pass.
Do the lost, living today, have an opportunity for salvation, or is the outcome of their life a foregone conclusion? Calvinism says "a foregone conclusion" but scripture says the kingdom of God is at hand.

 

[atpollard]

If people would have repented had they seen Christ's miracles, they were not foreordained to reject the gospel. Thus Calvinism is false doctrine.

So what of the people that DID see Christ's miracles and rejected Christ?

Now it happened on another Sabbath, also, that He entered the synagogue and taught. And a man was there whose right hand was withered. So the scribes and Pharisees watched Him closely, whether He would heal on the Sabbath, that they might find an accusation against Him. But He knew their thoughts, and said to the man who had the withered hand, “Arise and stand here.” And he arose and stood. Then Jesus said to them, “I will ask you one thing: Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy?” And when He had looked around at them all, He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he did so, and his hand was restored as whole as the other. But they were filled with rage, and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus. - Luke 6:6-11 (NKJV)​

 

[atpollard]

I answered correctly concerning Calvinism's doctrine that God has ordained (predestined) whatsoever comes to pass.
Do the lost, living today, have an opportunity for salvation, or is the outcome of their life a foregone conclusion? Calvinism says "a foregone conclusion" but scripture says the kingdom of God is at hand.

Is it not also written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
​

... are these words not also true?

So YES, the kingdom of God is at hand, but "men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed" THEREFORE "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him".

ALL of the verses must be true, not just some of them.

 

[Van]

So what of the people that DID see Christ's miracles and rejected Christ?

Now it happened on another Sabbath, also, that He entered the synagogue and taught. And a man was there whose right hand was withered. So the scribes and Pharisees watched Him closely, whether He would heal on the Sabbath, that they might find an accusation against Him. But He knew their thoughts, and said to the man who had the withered hand, “Arise and stand here.” And he arose and stood. Then Jesus said to them, “I will ask you one thing: Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy?” And when He had looked around at them all, He said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” And he did so, and his hand was restored as whole as the other. But they were filled with rage, and discussed with one another what they might do to Jesus. - Luke 6:6-11 (NKJV)​

The gospel presentation with or without great illustrations of its truth, provides a choice, and many choose to reject it.

 

[Van]

Is it not also written:

“There is none righteous, no, not one;
There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
​

... are these words not also true?

So YES, the kingdom of God is at hand, but "men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed" THEREFORE "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him".

ALL of the verses must be true, not just some of them.

I have addressed this passage dozens of times, but the Calvinists seem unwilling to accept the passage does not say "no one ever seeks after God..."

 

[Van]

Do the lost, living today, have an opportunity for salvation, or is the outcome of their life a foregone conclusion? Calvinism says "a foregone conclusion" but scripture says the kingdom of God is at hand.

Two very different gospels...

 

[Reformed1689]

One falsehood after another, one subject change after another...

And still have not dealt with my post.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Noticed you didn't actually deal with my post.

you do the SAME with mine!

 

[Van]

And still have not dealt with my post.

And still have not dealt with my post.

Any one can play this game....

 

[Reformed1689]

And still have not dealt with my post.

Any one can play this game....

Which of your posts did I not deal with Van?

 

[JesusFan]

Here is the heart-felt question of one Calvinist:
...do 'slacking soulwinners' result in MORE people going to hell? ...

...do diligent soulwinners result in MORE people going to heaven?
The Calvinism answer is no, God determined those going to heaven, and thus the rest not going to heaven before creation.
The Scriptural answer is yes, diligent evangelism "hastens the day" thus more people per time interval, so the end of the age occurs sooner, resulting in less people not going to heaven.

Two very different gospels...

No, God will indeed save out all of His elect in christ, and He also has chosen to use us to spread the good news of the gospel unto others now!

 

[Reformed1689]

you do the SAME with mine!

Which is false. I answer your posts, you just don't like the answers.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Which is false. I answer your posts, you just don't like the answers.

you respond, but not always "answer".

 

[Reformed1689]

Right

you respond, but not always "answer".

Right, you don't like my answers.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Right

Right, you don't like my answers.

well Dude, some are not even what the Bible says! Like John 3:16, where it is clear that God , loves the entire human race, that He sent Jesus to die for them. You only disagree, because you are "reformed/calvinist". Simple

 

[Reformed1689]

well Dude, some are not even what the Bible says! Like John 3:16, where it is clear that God , loves the entire human race, that He sent Jesus to die for them. You only disagree, because you are "reformed/calvinist". Simple

Except that isn't what John 3:16 says. In fact, John 3:16 doesn't say who Jesus died for specifically. It does say he loves the world, and implying the entire human race as a collective. It does not speak about individuals and there are PLENTY of other verses that show Jesus did not come to save every individual.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Except that isn't what John 3:16 says. In fact, John 3:16 doesn't say who Jesus died for specifically. It does say he loves the world, and implying the entire human race as a collective. It does not speak about individuals and there are PLENTY of other verses that show Jesus did not come to save every individual.

For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages

this LOVE of God is for the salvation of ANY of those in the entire world, who will believe. The "everyone", or "whosoever" in the Greek is πᾶς, which is in the singular number, meaning, "each and every". Not "collective", you can check the Greek yourself

 

[Reformed1689]

For so greatly did God love the world that He gave His only Son, that every one who trusts in Him may not perish but may have the Life of Ages

this LOVE of God is for the salvation of ANY of those in the entire world, who will believe. The "everyone", or "whosoever" in the Greek is πᾶς, which is in the singular number, meaning, "each and every". Not "collective", you can check the Greek yourself

Yeah there are two parts to the verse. God loved the world. STOP. That is its own part. BECAUSE God loved the world, his creation, he gave us Christ. That whoever, but it is not just whoever, there is a qualifier, that whoever believes, will not perish.

Notice this verse says nothing about WHO Christ died for. It does not say everyone, it does not say the elect. It doesn't deal with that question. The only question it deals with is what happens for those who believe and those who do not believe. You are trying to make it answer a question it does not address.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yeah there are two parts to the verse. God loved the world. STOP. That is its own part. BECAUSE God loved the world, his creation, he gave us Christ. That whoever, but it is not just whoever, there is a qualifier, that whoever believes, will not perish.

Notice this verse says nothing about WHO Christ died for. It does not say everyone, it does not say the elect. It doesn't deal with that question. The only question it deals with is what happens for those who believe and those who do not believe. You are trying to make it answer a question it does not address.

You put a stop because your theology cannot accept that Jesus died for the entire human race desires that all are saved