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Featured Is salvation available?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Jan 16, 2022.

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  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    The Gospel Message in the Four Gospels, is EXACTLY the same as the entire New Testament. Jesus initially Came for the Jews, but then the SAME Message was taken to the Gentiles. Show me otherwise from the NT

    The Greek in Acts 13:48, τεταγμένοι, can be either passive or middle voice. Because in verse 46 we have the Jews who REJECTED the Gospel Message preached, we read in verse 48, that the Gentiles REJOICED at the same Message, these are called, "self-actions", which is the middle voice. When they ACCEPTED what the Jews REJECTED, they were then ENROLLED (so the Greek), to the Lord's Family
     
    #201 SavedByGrace, Jan 18, 2022
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  2. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    More absurdity as argumentation. There is none who seeks after God when sinning, or all the time, clarifies the intended meaning. The Calvinist view expands the scope without support, thus making the word of God to no effect.
     
    #202 Van, Jan 18, 2022
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  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    People have shown you that your teaching is graceless and misunderstands Jesus comments. You ignore vast amounts of scripture that help clarify the sentences uon which you have built a graceless salvation.
    When many people provide biblical evidence and you reject it all, it should be a warning sign to you that you are wrong. But, you have dug in your heels and choose to fight everyone who disagrees with your poor interpretations.
    So be it.
     
    #203 AustinC, Jan 18, 2022
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  4. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    No one ever seeks God ... unless the Father draws them (John 6:44).
    Left to their own ... "people loved the darkness rather than the Light; for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light, so that his deeds will not be exposed." (John 3:19-20)

    That is why "God so loved the world, that He gave His only Son" (John 3:16) and "everyone who believes in Him will not perish, but have eternal life" (John 3:16) but "THERE IS NO RIGHTEOUS PERSON, NOT EVEN ONE; THERE IS NO ONE WHO UNDERSTANDS, THERE IS NO ONE WHO SEEKS OUT GOD; THEY HAVE ALL TURNED ASIDE, TOGETHER THEY HAVE BECOME CORRUPT; THERE IS NO ONE WHO DOES GOOD, THERE IS NOT EVEN ONE" (Romans 3:10-12).

    All are true. God loves "mankind" and "mankind" hates God and God draws and saves some, anyway.
     
    #204 atpollard, Jan 18, 2022
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  5. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    On and on, one bogus claim after another. Plenty of people seek God without being drawn by the Father. The biblical doctrine is no one can "come to Me" unless drawn by the Father. Think Jews that reject Jesus. They seek the God of the Bible but are not drawn to Christ.

    All of humanity does not hate God all the time, that is just another unbiblical bogus claim.
     
    #205 Van, Jan 18, 2022
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  6. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Pelagius believed that people were not innately sinful, but you do not believe what Pelagius believed.
    The later semi-Pelagians argued that men were not really "dead" in sins, but only sick and needed to go to the healer (something the sick are capable of).
    Monergists argue that "dead means dead" and God must come to the spiritually dead if we are to be raised.

    Do you truly believe the sick can walk to the doctor or does God need to come to the dead?
    That is the question.
     
    #206 atpollard, Jan 18, 2022
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  7. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    No, God saves some of them. ;)

    "And you were dead in your offenses and sins, in which you previously walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest." ​

    ... one starting line for all men.
     
    #207 atpollard, Jan 18, 2022
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  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    God chose His Redeemer before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4) and therefore corporately chose those who the Redeemer would redeem. However no individual was chosen for salvation before the foundation of the world because all those individually chose existed before as "not a people" and as having "not obtained mercy." 1 Peter 2:9-10.

    Total Spiritual Inability has been shown to be unbiblical nonsense numerous times. If the lost are in a "hardened state" why did God need to harden them in Romans 11?

    John 6:37 - Everyone God gives me will come to me, and the one who comes to me I will never send away."
    Note the tense, God gives, not God has given before creation. So this verse supports individual election during the lifetime of the believer.

    How could believer's hasten the day of Christ's return, if the outcome of the lives of the lost were not altered? (2 Peter 3:12)

    Numerous lines of evidence have been presented to show the opportunity of salvation is at hand, and for foregone conclusion doctrine of Calvinism is unbiblical.
     
    #208 Van, Jan 18, 2022
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    What has Pelagius have to do with the topic? Nothing. Just another attempt to change the subject with smear tactics.

    Matthew 23:13 has "spiritually dead people" seeking God, thus the "Monergists" doctrine is unbiblical nonsense.

    No one can come to Me (Christ) unless the Father draws them. John 6:44. So the question is calculated to imply I hold unbiblical beliefs, but the charge is yet another falsehood to avoid the fact the gospel is good news for the lost because it presents the opportunity of salvation through belief in the truth.
     
    #209 Van, Jan 18, 2022
  10. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, ​

    Paul says not so ... saved US, called US, given US in Christ ... WE were in view from the beginning.
     
    #210 atpollard, Jan 18, 2022
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  11. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    having made known to us the secret of His will, according to His good pleasure, that He purposed in Himself, in regard to the dispensation of the fulness of the times, to bring into one the whole in the Christ, both the things in the heavens, and the things upon the earth -- in him; Eph 1:9,10

    how that God was in Christ -- a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation, in behalf of Christ, then, we are ambassadors, as if God were calling through us, we beseech, in behalf of Christ, 'Be ye reconciled to God;' 2 Cor 5:19,20
     
    #211 percho, Jan 18, 2022
  12. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    LOL, this passage proves my point and demonstrates the opportunity of salvation for all.
     
    #212 Van, Jan 18, 2022
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  13. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your Vanism is false. Multiple persons have shown you your error.

    It's fascinating to see 3 different people on this board dig in their heels on unorthodox theology that no one else holds.
     
    #213 AustinC, Jan 18, 2022
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  14. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    You cannot be ignorant of what comes next, so I have no more time for games ... supper waits.
     
    #214 atpollard, Jan 18, 2022
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  15. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    This passage supports my view, God saves individuals through faith, not according to our works.
     
    #215 Van, Jan 18, 2022
  16. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Your Calvinism is false. Multiple verses have show you your error. And the claim no one else believes salvation is available and God has not predetermined that we will accept or reject Christ, is obviously false.
     
    #216 Van, Jan 18, 2022
  17. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Saved by grace. Through faith, which is not of ourselves.
    Faith does not come before salvation. Faith comes as an effect of God's gracious choice to save.
     
    #217 AustinC, Jan 18, 2022
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  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    ]The man-centered Calvinist doctrine makes God responsible for the lost going into eternal punishment, scripture indicates some of the lost might be saved through effective witness. For example, some people would have repented had they seen the miracles Jesus performed elsewhere. Or the fields are white with harvest.

    Do the lost, living today, have an opportunity for salvation, or is the outcome of their life a foregone conclusion? Calvinism says "a foregone conclusion" but scripture says the kingdom of God is at hand.

    Two very different gospels..
     
    #218 Van, Jan 18, 2022
  19. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Your Vanism is false.
    Multiple verses have show you your error.
     
    #219 AustinC, Jan 18, 2022
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  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Now a Calvinist claims through or by way of faith does not teach faith comes before salvation. Utter nonsense. If you enter a room through a door, first you go through the door, then enter the room. 2 + 2 + 4
     
    #220 Van, Jan 18, 2022
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