Is salvation available?

[SavedByGrace]

On and on, one bogus claim after another. Plenty of people seek God without being drawn by the Father. The biblical doctrine is no one can "come to Me" unless drawn by the Father. Think Jews that reject Jesus. They seek the God of the Bible but are not drawn to Christ.

All of humanity does not hate God all the time, that is just another unbiblical bogus claim.

NO human being can ever, in and of themselves SEEK the Lord, as they are naturally not interested. They must be DRAWN by the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Gospel Message, and CONVICTED of their sins and need for The Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Salvation is not man-made!

 

[Van]

Your Vanism is false.
Multiple verses have show you your error.

Your Calvinism is false. Multiple verses have show you your error. And the claim no one else believes salvation is available and God has not predetermined that we will accept or reject Christ, is obviously false.

 

[AustinC]

]The man-centered Calvinist doctrine makes God responsible for the lost going into eternal punishment, scripture indicates some of the lost might be saved through effective witness. For example, some people would have repented had they seen the miracles Jesus performed elsewhere. Or the fields are white with harvest.

Do the lost, living today, have an opportunity for salvation, or is the outcome of their life a foregone conclusion? Calvinism says "a foregone conclusion" but scripture says the kingdom of God is at hand.

Two very different gospels..

The man-centered Vanism makes man the cause of salvation and God the effected party who reacts.
Every person God has chosen will hear his voice and be saved. The Bible is clear in so many passages on this issue that to claim differently is an obvious sign of man-centered theology, which is the core of Vanism.

 

[AustinC]

Your Calvinism is false. Multiple verses have show you your error. And the claim no one else believes salvation is available and God has not predetermined that we will accept or reject Christ, is obviously false.

Your Vanism is false.
Multiple verses have show you your error.
Your man-centered theology is obvious to all.

 

[Van]

NO human being can ever, in and of themselves SEEK the Lord, as they are naturally not interested. They must be DRAWN by the Holy Spirit through the preaching of the Gospel Message, and CONVICTED of their sins and need for The Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ.

Salvation is not man-made!

Repeating fiction is no rebuttal. Matthew 23:13 teaches of people seeking God.

 

[Van]

The man-centered Vanism makes man the cause of salvation and God the effected party who reacts.
Every person God has chosen will hear his voice and be saved. The Bible is clear in so many passages on this issue that to claim differently is an obvious sign of man-centered theology, which is the core of Vanism.

The man-centered Calvinism denies the opportunity for salvation. This Calvinist denies salvation depends of the One who calls and not on the person who wills to be saved. (Romans 9:16)
There are no passages of scripture that support Calvinism's fiction of futility. None, zip, nada...

 

[Van]

Your Vanism is false.
Multiple verses have show you your error.
Your man-centered theology is obvious to all.

Your Calvinism is false
Multiple verses have shown you your error
Your man-centered theology is obvious to those who study scripture.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Repeating fiction is no rebuttal. Matthew 23:13 teaches of people seeking God.

I am NOT reformed or a calvinist, and say that it is humanly IMPOSSIBLE for any sinner who is dead in their sins, to seek the Lord on their own. It is the Work of God the Holy Spirit, in CONVICTION, that leads them to REPENT and BELIEVE. What you suggest is a FALSE gospel!

 

[RipponRedeaux]

On and on, one bogus claim after another. Plenty of people seek God without being drawn by the Father. The biblical doctrine is no one can "come to Me" unless drawn by the Father. Think Jews that reject Jesus. They seek the God of the Bible but are not drawn to Christ.

The Jews that rejected Jesus by consequence denied the Father. They indeed did not seek "the God of the Bible." Jesus is God in the flesh. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." (John 8:19). Jesus said that "I and the Father are one." (John 10;30). You are playing with fire Van to deny plain Scripture.

 

[Van]

I am NOT reformed or a calvinist, and say that it is humanly IMPOSSIBLE for any sinner who is dead in their sins, to seek the Lord on their own. It is the Work of God the Holy Spirit, in CONVICTION, that leads them to REPENT and BELIEVE. What you suggest is a FALSE gospel!

You can deny Matthew 23:13 till the cows come home. Did anyone say people seek the Lord all on their own. That God has not revealed Himself? Nope. Is seeking God the same as having God credit their faith as righteousness? Nope. Please address the biblical doctrine being presented from scripture!!

 

[Van]

The Jews that rejected Jesus by consequence denied the Father. They indeed did not seek "the God of the Bible." Jesus is God in the flesh. "If you knew me, you would know my Father also." (John 8:19). Jesus said that "I and the Father are one." (John 10;30). You are playing with fire Van to deny plain Scripture.

More absurdity, more claims that Abraham's bosom was empty. LOL they just go on and on...

 

[SavedByGrace]

Did anyone say people seek the Lord all on their own

in #206 you said, "On and on, one bogus claim after another. Plenty of people seek God without being drawn by the Father"

This is FALSE! as it is IMPOSSIBLE

It is clear, that as you cannot grasp Christology, you also cannot grasp Soteriology. Instead of slamming people on here, be humble and LEARN!

 

[RipponRedeaux]

More absurdity, more claims that Abraham's bosom was empty. LOL they just go on and on...

It is simply absurd that a professing Christian like yourself would deny ultra clear Scripture so glibly. And what in the world does Abraham's bosom have to do with the Scripture I quoted which you turn on its head?

In my post #230, I quoted two passages from John. You call those passages absurdity. And you have the temerity to call yourself a Bible believer?!

 

[Dave G]

The Gospel Message in the Four Gospels, is EXACTLY the same as the entire New Testament.

I agree.
Please see John 6, John 8, John 10, Matthew 7, Matthew 13, Matthew 25.

Jesus initially Came for the Jews, but then the SAME Message was taken to the Gentiles. Show me otherwise from the NT

I agree, sir, and that's been done, my friend.
The same message was indeed taken to the Gentiles after it was delivered to the Jews.

I'm sorry that you don't seem to understand that that message was not only one of forgiveness of sins for those who believe on Jesus Christ, but also includes the details about who, how and why those who believe, do so.

The Greek in Acts 13:48, τεταγμένοι, can be either passive or middle voice. Because in verse 46 we have the Jews who REJECTED the Gospel Message preached, we read in verse 48, that the Gentiles REJOICED at the same Message, these are called, "self-actions", which is the middle voice. When they ACCEPTED what the Jews REJECTED, they were then ENROLLED (so the Greek), to the Lord's Family

" As many as were ordained to eternal life...believed."

I encourage you to believe the words, SBG, as they stand.

 

[Dave G]

Plenty of people seek God without being drawn by the Father.

" No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ( John 6:44 ).

" And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:65 ).

 

[RipponRedeaux]

" No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." ( John 6:44 ).

" And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father." ( John 6:65 ).

Van does not get the plain import of Scripture. It's like he's blind to its message. He doesn't get the fact that people do not seek God. He doesn't understand that the Father is God and that the Son --Jesus, cannot be rejected by people and yet those people according to Van seek God. It's an impossibility.

 

[AustinC]

Now a Calvinist claims through or by way of faith does not teach faith comes before salvation. Utter nonsense. If you enter a room through a door, first you go through the door, then enter the room. 2 + 2 + 4

Van, there is your error. God goes through the door and draws you in.
God is the cause of salvation. Faith is the effect.

 

[AustinC]

I am NOT reformed or a calvinist, and say that it is humanly IMPOSSIBLE for any sinner who is dead in their sins, to seek the Lord on their own. It is the Work of God the Holy Spirit, in CONVICTION, that leads them to REPENT and BELIEVE. What you suggest is a FALSE gospel!

It is indeed impossible, which is why dead in sin people cannot repent before God does his gracious work.
In your truth statement, you condemn your own teaching.

 

[atpollard]

I am NOT reformed or a calvinist, and say that it is humanly IMPOSSIBLE for any sinner who is dead in their sins, to seek the Lord on their own. It is the Work of God the Holy Spirit, in CONVICTION, that leads them to REPENT and BELIEVE. What you suggest is a FALSE gospel!

This right here is an illustration of the difference between Christians that can disagree about HOW God saves … and a heretic that disagrees with Christians about WHO does the saving.

God saves men = gospel (good news).
Anything that STARTS with what men do is not the gospel.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
This Thread will be closed no sooner than 330 pm EST / 1230 pm PST

This thread is closed -
Feel free to start a new one.