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I both read and specifically responded to the points of your post.
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Seeking God
- Thread starter Van
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I both read and specifically responded to the points of your post.
Post 34 misrepresents the biblical teaching that God has revealed Himself (first) to those who seek Him.
This is all they have folks, misrepresent scriptural truth to hide their obviously false doctrine. The lost sometimes seek God because God has revealed Himself to them through general and special revelation.
Ezr 8:23
So we fasted and sought our God concerning this matter, and He listened to our pleading.
This is all they have folks, misrepresent scriptural truth to hide their obviously false doctrine. The lost sometimes seek God because God has revealed Himself to them through general and special revelation.
Ezr 8:23
So we fasted and sought our God concerning this matter, and He listened to our pleading.
I claimed no Calvinist view, but posted the Scriptures as they are presented.
YOU are the one that seem to be misleading.
Not once have I addressed OT saints. Each sought God AFTER God first made contact with them.
You posted:
“1) I said the lost have limited spiritual ability, thus they can at times seek God.”
At this point in time, I am doubtful you can substantially present Scripture support without you manipulating the presentation by what is commonly called proof texting. Selecting a verse out of context does not prove your view as has been shown repeatedly in this thread.
Utter nonsense. God doesn't change and "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and to-day, yea and for ever."
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, so also it is now. Gal 4
Isaac born after the Spirit before he was weaned; David made to hope while on his mother's breast; John the Baptist filled with the Spirit while in the womb; Paul separated from his mother's womb to preach to the nations, the birth from above occurs long before ever hearing. That's why it's called irresistible grace - the Spirit where He willeth doth blow.
The posts where Calvinist's deny Calvinism are common on this forum.
Did I provide quotes of scriptures saying people sought God? Yes, Does this poster say I have yet to provide Scripture proof for that view? Yes. Nuff said...
1st, you are moving the goal posts and now seem to admit God must be the instigator, the first to make contact.
2nd, you AGAIN ignore context:
21And there by the Ahava Canal I proclaimed a fast, so that we might humble ourselves before our God and ask Him for a safe journey for us and our children, with all our possessions. 22For I was ashamed to ask the king for an escort of soldiers and horsemen to protect us from our enemies on the road, since we had told him, “The hand of our God is gracious to all who seek Him, but His great anger is against all who forsake Him.”
23So we fasted and petitioned our God about this, and He granted our request.
23So we fasted and petitioned our God about this, and He granted our request.
Who instigated the fast and petition to God?
Again, you fail to prove the unsaved, unregenerate, the one who knows not God does in fact seek God by example in the OT.
Thanks for an on topic post!!
Born after the Spirit refers to Isaac being born according to God's promise. This does not refer to Isaac being born anew in Christ. Isaac had to wait in Abraham's bosom because he had not yet been made perfect.
The "birth from above" (referring to being born anew) occurs after a person is placed spiritually into Christ, for "in Christ" all are made alive.
The readers of this thread can make discernment concerning the truthfulness.
It does seem you cannot present a single unregenerate individual of the OT that of their own volition sought God.
You posted:
“1) I said the lost have limited spiritual ability, thus they can at times seek God.”
Why not admit you are overstating the ability of the lost and move on to more secure Scripture presentations?
Yet another claim "context" (Calvinist misinterpretation) alters what the text says. They sought God based on what they knew from God's revelation. Did I say people seek God who do not know about God? Nope. Why the endless misrepresentation of the biblical view? To hide the false doctrine of Calvinism.
@Van posted:
Van is arguing with himself for he posted earlier:
He has been shown to be wrong.
He is using the reference to Calvinistic thinking as a screen of protection because he knows but refuses to admit the Scriptures do not support his view of the limited spiritual ability of the lost.
Yet another claim "context" (Calvinist misinterpretation) alters what the text says. They sought God based on what they knew from God's revelation. Did I say people seek God who do not know about God? Nope. Why the endless misrepresentation of the biblical view? To hide the false doctrine of Calvinism...
“1) I said the lost have limited spiritual ability, thus they can at times seek God.”
He has been shown to be wrong.
He is using the reference to Calvinistic thinking as a screen of protection because he knows but refuses to admit the Scriptures do not support his view of the limited spiritual ability of the lost.
Why do you think the usual Calvinists are posting nonsense. Did I refer to God's revelation. Yes. Did a Calvinist claim I did not acknowledge this truth? Yes. On and on folks, falsehood after falsehood.
What is all their fuss about? Calvinism claims no one ever seeks God until "regenerated." But they have redefined "regenerated" to mean the "enablement of Irresistible Grace" such that a person having "Total Spiritual Inability" could after "Calvinism's bogus Regeneration" seek God and trust in Christ. However regeneration refers to being made alive together with Christ. No one was actually biblically "regenerated" until after Christ arose, thus He is the first born, and we are actually "regenerated" when we are made alive as a new creation when God places us spiritually into Christ, for all in Christ will be made alive.
So biblically, none of the OT Saints were "regenerated" (made alive) until after Christ arose as the first born from the dead. So how did they seek God without being "regenerated?" Because they could because "Total Spiritual Inability" is a Calvinist fiction.
Thus the stream of posts to claim the OT Saints that sought God had been "regenerated" according to their bogus redefinition.
For example how could Christ be the first born from the dead, if spiritually dead OT saints were made live before they obtained approval by faith? Thus the Calvinist claim is bogus.
What is all their fuss about? Calvinism claims no one ever seeks God until "regenerated." But they have redefined "regenerated" to mean the "enablement of Irresistible Grace" such that a person having "Total Spiritual Inability" could after "Calvinism's bogus Regeneration" seek God and trust in Christ. However regeneration refers to being made alive together with Christ. No one was actually biblically "regenerated" until after Christ arose, thus He is the first born, and we are actually "regenerated" when we are made alive as a new creation when God places us spiritually into Christ, for all in Christ will be made alive.
So biblically, none of the OT Saints were "regenerated" (made alive) until after Christ arose as the first born from the dead. So how did they seek God without being "regenerated?" Because they could because "Total Spiritual Inability" is a Calvinist fiction.
Thus the stream of posts to claim the OT Saints that sought God had been "regenerated" according to their bogus redefinition.
For example how could Christ be the first born from the dead, if spiritually dead OT saints were made live before they obtained approval by faith? Thus the Calvinist claim is bogus.
Here is an example of falsehood. Having the limited spiritual ability to at times seek God, does not say they did not know of God first based on His revelation. All these absurd posts of obfuscation to hide the fact the lost do at times seek God as presented over and over in the OT by unregenerate people.
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I said this in post #1, "Can they seek God without God revealing Himself? Of course not." So the claim of moving goal posts is false and absurd...
Personal Incredulity is a fallacious argument. I have posted numerous scriptures saying OT saints sought God. Full stop
Do you think Christ did not exist until after He came out of Mary's womb?
Do you think Christ is not God Almighty, Eternal and forever and ever?
All these "change the subject" efforts are to hide the fact the OT saints sought God while unregenerate. Full Stop
First, the biblical view was presented in post #1, and thus has not been moved!!!
Second, personal incredulity is a fallacious argument.
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