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Featured Jesus Christ The God-Man

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by SavedByGrace, May 24, 2021.

  1. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    “Have this mind in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: who, being in the form of God, counted it not a prize to be on an equality with God, but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men; and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, becoming obedient [even] unto death, yea, the death of the cross. Wherefore also God highly exalted him, and gave unto him the name which is above every name; that in the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven and [things] on earth and [things] under the earth, and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.” (Philippians 2:5-11)

    Verse 6 in the Greek is, “ος εν μορφη θεου υπαρχων”, literally, “Who in the very nature of God existing”. The participle “υπαρχων” is in the masculine singular, and present tense. The KJV, NKJV, etc, render it as “being”.

    To when does this “υπαρχων” refer? Are we to accept the meaning as suggested by the margin reading of the 1881 Revised Version, “Gr. being originally”, which is what Dr Thayer says in his Greek lexicon. But, this is very much misleading, as it strongly suggests that, Jesus Christ “was in the nature of God before His Incarnation”, and “gave this up”, when He became Man. This is not what the Greek says here, nor, what the Apostle Paul is meaning. “υπαρχων”, does have the meaning of, “ to be already in existence”. But, this is not all that it means, as it does also include “continuation”.

    Acts 7:55, “But he, being (υπαρχων) full of the Holy Spirit”
    Acts 14:8, “being (υπαρχων) a cripple from his mother's womb”
    Galatians 2:14, “ If thou, being (υπαρχων) a Jew”

    In each of these examples, past and continued actions are meant.

    How are we to understand the Greek “μορφὴ ϑεοῦ”, translated in many English Versions as “form”, and in the NIV, as “very nature”. “μορφη” is used 3 times in the New Testament, in Philippians 2:6 and 7 (form of a servant, KJV), and Mark 16:12. The correct meaning of the word in the passage in Philippians 2, is found in the other use of it, in Mark 16:12. Here it reads that Jesus appeared, “εν ετερα μορφη”. Firstly, of the adjective, “ετερα”, which here means, “of another kind, different”. After His Resurrection, the Body of the Lord Jesus Christ was “essentially transformed”, as He could disappear (Luke 24:31). He could walk through closed doors (John 20:19). Though His “outward appearance” was exactly the same after the Resurrection. This is very clear from Jesus’ Road to Emmaus conversation with the two he walked with, in Luke 24. In verse 16, when Jesus had joined the two men, it says, “But their eyes were prevented from recognizing Him”. And in verse 31, “And their eyes were opened, and they recognized him. And he vanished from their sight”. It is clear the God had here “prevented” these two from “recognizing” Jesus. This would not have been necessary, if Jesus’ “outward appearance”, had changed in any way. It is clear from this passage, which is the same time of Mark’s account, that “μορφη” means “essential”, and not “outward”. This is exactly what Paul means in Philippians.

    Next we have, “οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο”, = “considered it not a thing to be grasped”.

    In the original sense, “ἁρπαγμὸν”, has the meaning of “the act of seizing”, hence the reading of Versions like the KJV, etc. However, the noun can also be used in a passive sense, rather than active, with the meaning, “to be grasped”, or “held on to”. This phrase, “οὐχ ἁρπαγμὸν ἡγήσατο”, must be taken with, “τὸ εἶναι ἴσα θεῷ”, which is translated, “to be equal with God”. “ἴσα” is in the neuter plural, and used as an adverb, with the meaning, “on equal terms, without advantage to either side”.

    This is clearly seen from a couple of examples, as in Hebrews 2:7, 9, “You made Him for a little while lower than the angels; you have crowned Him with glory and honor…But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone” “ἠλαττωμένον”, means to “to make lower than, to be inferior to”. Because Jesus, the eternal God, “became flesh”, and suffered on the cross. In this sense He was “lower”, than even the angels. This was only “for a little while”, for the duration of Jesus’ Incarnation, while on earth.

    We then have, “ἀλλὰ ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν μορφὴν δούλου λαβών”. literally, “but Himself emptied the very nature of a bond-servant having taken”. This “emptying” that Paul speaks of, is because Jesus Christ “took upon Himself”, the “very nature of a bond-servant”. The “emptying” has nothing to do with “μορφὴ ϑεοῦ”, which we have seen from, “υπαρχων”, is a continued existence. “ἐκένωσεν”, is from, “κενόω”, literally, “to empty”. The one Who does the “emptying”, is Jesus Christ “Himself”. What is “κενόω” used here for? There is a passage in the Greek writer, Herodotus, where he uses this verb, as “stripped” (see, LSJ, Greek lexicon). The meaning of “strip” here, as defined in Webster’s, “ to divest of honors, privileges, or functions”. Clearly from this passage in Philippians 2, we read of Jesus Christ as “stripping Himself of the honor and privilege”, that He had with the Father from all eternity, by becoming the God-Man. As Weymouth’s New Testament rightly reads, “He stripped Himself of His glory”. God cannot cease to be God, and Jesus Christ, Who IS Almighty God, can not for any time, not be God! “μορφὴν δούλου”, is in the same way “μορφὴ ϑεοῦ” is understood, as the “very nature” of a human, except sin. One Person, Jesus Christ, verse 5, Two “natures”, God and Man, at His Incarnation, verse 6-7.

    Next, “ εν ομοιωματι ανθρωπων γενομενος”, that is, “being born in the likeness of man”. What does Paul mean here, by “likeness”? This does not mean that the “human nature” of Jesus Christ, was unreal, and just a phantom, as some in the early Church taught. To understand what this means, we can look at another verse in Paul, Romans 8:3, “ For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh”. Same Greek word, “ὁμοίωμα”, (to resemble). The “human nature” of Jesus Christ, is very real, but, it is without any sin, which is not true of any human being ever born. In Matthew 1:16, we read, “Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ”. The Greek is very important, “ἐξ ἧς”, literally, “out of HER”, feminine, singular, which shows that Mary was the biological “mother” of Jesus Christ, Who actually derived His “human nature” from her. This is also seen in Luke 1:35, “therefore also that Holy Child Who shall be born of thee (ἐκ σοῦ, singular, “out of you”) shall be called the Son of God”

    In the Greek, Paul is very careful in how he writes. He says, “κατεκρινε την αμαρτιαν εν τη σαρκ”, “condemned sin in the flesh”. Had he written, “κατεκρινε την αμαρτιαν την εν τη σαρκ”, this would have made sin in the flesh of Jesus Christ. It is clear from both these passages taken together, what Paul does mean when he says, “in the likeness of man”.

    “And being found in fashion as a man”, Weymouth translates, “ And being recognized as truly human”. “σχῆμα”, here translated as “fashion”, is more than just the “outward appearance”. It also is used for, “character, characteristic propetry”, that which makes a “real human”. When those who lived with Jesus looked at Him, they “saw” a real human being like themselves. But, in His One Person, He was the God-Man, 100% God and 100% Man, except for sin.

    Then we have Jesus’ “submission” to God the Father, “He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross”. This “obedience”, is “μέχρῐ”, “till the end of His life”, “as long as”. At which point in time, that “submission” to the Father was ended. This is what the passage in Hebrew 2 says, that it was for “a little while”, that Jesus was “made lower than the angels”, for the duration of His Incarnate Life on earth.

    The next three verses are to be taken together, “Therefore God has highly exalted Him and bestowed on Him the Name that is above every name, so that at the Name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father”

    The Name Jesus was given to Mary by, the Father, through the angel Gabriel (Luke 1:31). His Name is Highly exalted above all other names. So Great is Jesus Christ, that He is to receive all the Praise, Worship and Adoration, that is for Almighty God Himself. The words that Paul uses here, for The Lord Jesus Christ, and from the Old Testament Prophet Isaiah:

    “Declare and present it. Yes, let them take counsel together. Who has shown this from ancient time? Who has declared it of old? Haven't I, Yahweh? There is no other God besides Me, a Just God and a Saviour; There is no one besides Me."Look to Me, and be saved, all the ends of the earth; for I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself, the word has gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and will not return, that to Me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath.” (45:21-23)

    Further, the words in Isaiah are Spoken by Yahweh Himself, to Whom “every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath.”. The Apostle Paul has taken these words from this passage, and directly applied them to The Lord Jesus Christ, thereby identifying Jesus Christ as Yahweh. It would be blasphemy for Paul to have done this, if Jesus Christ Himself is not Almighty God.
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    I think you are misunderstanding Thayer. Christ gave it up in the sense that he was also fully man and suffered like we do.
     
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Gave up the form of God?
     
  4. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    'And now, glorify me, Thou Father, with Thyself, with the glory that I had before the world was, with Thee; John 17:5
    and this he said of the Spirit, which those believing in him were about to receive; for not yet was the Holy Spirit, because Jesus was not yet glorified. John 7:39
    who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God. 1 Peter 1:21

    What exactly is that glory? I am not sure that I know. Is it relative to the following?

    'For, as the Father doth raise the dead, and doth make alive, so also the Son doth make alive whom he willeth; John 5:21
    'Verily, verily, I say to you -- There cometh an hour, and it now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God, and those having heard shall live; for, as the Father hath life in himself, so He gave also to the Son to have life in himself,

    so He gave also to the Son to have life in himself - Did that come along with being raised from out of the dead by the Father and being given glory by the Father? Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle -- not from men, nor through man, but through Jesus Christ, and God the Father, who did raise him out of the dead --

    And just what of the promise of the Spirit? Who first received, was given, the promise of the Spirit? Remember John 7:39

    'This Jesus did God raise up, of which we are all witnesses; at the right hand then of God having been exalted -- also the promise of the Holy Spirit having received from the Father -- he was shedding forth this, which now ye see and hear; Acts 2:32,33

    Did he exalt himself to the right hand of God? Why? Why did God (?the Father?) exalt him (Jesus the Son?) ? Why did the Son need to be exalted? Was it because God self emptied in sending God in flesh of woman, Son and was put to death to flesh?

    Was God/Word always Father/Son or did God send Word through woman in flesh Son subject to death through obedience?

    but did empty himself, the form of a servant having taken, in the likeness of men having been made, and in fashion having been found as a man, he humbled himself, having become obedient unto death -- death even of a cross, wherefore, also, God did highly exalt him, and gave to him a name that is above every name, that in the name of Jesus every knee may bow -- of heavenlies, and earthlies, and what are under the earth -- and every tongue may confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phil 2

    wherefore - for obedience of faith - exalted

    That is why the gospel has gone to the nations. Because Jesus, Son, learned through sufferings, the obedience. Becoming obedient unto death -- death even of the cross wherefore

    Obedience of Faith all I repeat ALL of GOD. Father and Son.

    The obedience is not, of us and neither is the faith, of us.

    That is, the faith, by which salvation was wrought for man. IMHO

    Hebrews 5:8,9 through being a Son, did learn by the things which he suffered -- the obedience, and having been made perfect, he did become to all those obeying him a cause of salvation age-during,

    Died and exalted.
     
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  5. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    According to Hebrews 1:3 while bearing our sins on the cross He maintained the creation as God. ". . . upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, . . ."
     
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  6. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I am trying to understand what you are saying
     
  7. Alan Gross

    Alan Gross Well-Known Member

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    Gill for the sake of Christianity articulated.

    Hebrews 5:8

    Though he were a Son
    The Son of God, as the Vulgate Latin version reads; not by creation, nor by adoption, nor by office, but by nature, being the only begotten of the Father, having the same nature and perfections with him:

    yet learned he obedience;
    not to his parents, or civil magistrates, though that is true; nor merely to the precepts of the law, which he did; but unto death: through sufferings he became obedient to death, even the death of the cross: and this he learnt; not that he was ignorant of the nature of it; nor was he destitute of an obedient disposition to it; but the meaning is, he had an experience of it, and effected it; and which was voluntary, and done in our room and stead; and is the rule and the measure of our righteousness before God: and this he learned,

    by the things which he suffered;
    from men, from devils, and from the justice of God. Christ's sonship did not exempt him from obedience and sufferings; this shows the dignity of Christ's person, that he is the Son of God, not as Mediator, for as such he is a servant; and it would be no wonder that he should learn obedience as a servant; and this shows also the great humility and condescension of Christ in obeying and suffering for us; though so great a person; and likewise the vile nature of sin, and the strictness of divine justice: and we may learn from hence, not to expect to be exempted from sufferings on account of sonship; nor to conclude we are not sons, because we suffer; and that afflictions are instructive, and by them experience is learned.

    Hebrews 5:9

    And being made perfect
    In his obedience, through sufferings; having completed his obedience, gone through his sufferings, and finished his sacrifice, and being perfectly glorified in heaven:

    he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey
    him
    ;
    the salvation Christ is the author of is "eternal"; it was resolved upon from eternity, and contrived in it; it was secured in the everlasting covenant, in which not only a Saviour was provided, but blessings both of grace and glory: and it is to eternity; and stands distinguished from a temporal salvation, and is opposed to eternal damnation; it is the salvation of the soul, which is immortal; and it takes in both grace and glory, which are of a durable nature; and the continuance of it is owing to the abiding and lasting virtue of Christ's person, blood, and righteousness: and Christ is the cause or author of this salvation, by his obedience and sufferings; by obeying the precept, and bearing the penalty of the law; by the price of his blood, and by the power of his arm; by his death and by his life; by his sacrifice on the cross, and by his intercession in heaven; by bestowing grace here, and glory hereafter: this shows that salvation is done, and that Christ is the sole author of it, and that all the glory of it should be given to him; and those to whom he is the author of salvation, are such as hearken to the voice of his Gospel, and obey hin in his ordinances. Christ is not the author of salvation to all men; all men do not obey him; all those whom Christ saves, he brings them to an obedience to himself; for his obedience for them does not exempt them from obedience to him, though their obedience is no cause of their salvation; Christ himself is the alone author of that.
     
  8. percho

    percho Well-Known Member
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    I believe scripture shows he self emptied, glory, in being made flesh.

    The rest is just trying to determine all of what that, glory, might consist of.
     
  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    No, still God, but accepted the limitations imposed upon Him when as a human in the flesh!
     
  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    I don't like the word "human" applied to Jesus Christ. As He is the Eternal God was manifested in the flesh, thereby becoming the God-Man, fully God and full Man, sin excepted.

    To say "human" makes Jesus like on of us and ignores the fact that He is always Almighty God
     
  11. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    He was fully one of us, except had a sinless human nature, and was also God
     
  12. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Indeed so we cannot really refer to Jesus Christ as "human" because He is always Almighty God
     
  13. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    He was fully human, as was same as any of us in His humanity, except had a sinless human nature!

    He was a Jewish man, who was also God!
     
  14. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Never mind :rolleyes:
     
  15. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    was Jesus a human being?
     
  16. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    No, never
     
  17. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O. Moderator
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    Brother, how could Jesus NOT be fully human, as well as fully God,
    • he was born to a human mother and had human ancestors and siblings
    • he was of human flesh that bled, ate, drank, got thirsty, hungry, sleepy, wept, suffered great pain, and died
    • the Bible says "God was made flesh and dwelt among us".
     
  18. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    The question is very simple. Is Jesus Christ a "human being". And the Bible answer is NO.

    Jesus Christ is the Eternal God, Who took upon Himself "human nature", and "appeared" as a human person, which is very clear in Philippians 2:5-8. Jesus Christ remained Almighty God, even though He "became" the God-Man, fully God and fully Man, with the exception of any sin in His human nature. Jesus Christ, after His Conception in the womb of Mary, is known as the God-Man, and can never be simply a "human being", which denies that He remains Almighty God.

    People cannot grasp this deep Truth about Jesus Christ, and therefore make false statements through their lack of understaning.

    There is not ONE thing that I have ever written that denies the true human nature of Jesus Christ, as I have written many times here on BB.

    People must read carefully what I have written, and if they cannot understand, then ask, rather than make rather foolish statments that are completely false!
     
  19. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    So what was he then while on earth?
     
  20. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    For the LAST time, The God-Man, 100% God and 100% Man, except for sin. He APPEARED as a "human" as Paul clearly says in Philippians 2:7, "being born in the LIKENESS (ὁμοιώματι) of men", because Jesus Christ, even though He LOOKED like another "human", is not, because He is God in the flesh, 2 natures in 1 Person! the Greek ὁμοίωμα means "resemblance", but not a phantom.

    Do you get this yet? if not, I suggest that you pray and ask the Holy Spirit to open your understanding.
     
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