Is Creation BY or THROUGH Jesus Christ? PT 2

[agedman]

There is much on BB about my views on the Holy Trinity, as I have linked one study in #34. If people have not the time to read what I have written, then asking silly questions will not be answered. Nor foolish remarks like you make, showing your ignorance on Christology.

I have nothing further to say, believe what you will about what I believe, but don't post RUBBISH, when you don't know what you are talking about!

Do you have the capacity to admit you are wrong or that you may not have the total answer?

You display little concern for others, and that is alarming.

What are the gifts of the Spirit, and in what manner have you displayed them by such arrogance as you posted here?

We all make mistakes, we all sometimes wonder into the quicksand, for that is partly what this BB is about. It is to bounce presentations off each other, so seek in healthy debate the worthiness and faithfulness.

But a post such as this is inappropriate to the spirit of the BB and (imo) to that of the Holy Spirit, too.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Do you have the capacity to admit you are wrong or that you may not have the total answer?

you have not shown a single piece of what I have writen anywhere on BB, that is wrong? What you have written, and even charged me with is FALSE, due to your lack of grasp on Christology. This is clear to me from what I have read you write.

Prove me wrong from the Bible, and I will admit it. Prove that I have EVER denied or diminished the "human nature" in Jesus Christ, and I will admit it. If you cannot understand deep Christology, then I suggest that you pray and ask the Lord to guide you, but there is no point in making FALSE statements against me, when it is clear that your reasoning is in error!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Paul stated one mediator between God and us, the MAN Jesus!

so, according to YOUR understanding, based on ONE misunderstood verse, you say that Jesus Christ is a MAN? This is like the Jehovah's Witnesses misuse of John 1:1, to show that Jesus Christ is "a god".

You still don't get it.

 

[AustinC]

There is much on BB about my views on the Holy Trinity, as I have linked one study in #34. If people have not the time to read what I have written, then asking silly questions will not be answered. Nor foolish remarks like you make, showing your ignorance on Christology.

I have nothing further to say, believe what you will about what I believe, but don't post RUBBISH, when you don't know what you are talking about!

SBG, the question was a yes/no answer. Your avoidance of this simple answer is a red flag to everyone who sees you not answer the question. I state once again that you are making it seem that you are a gnostic.

 

[SavedByGrace]

SBG, the question was a yes/no answer. Your avoidance of this simple answer is a red flag to everyone who sees you not answer the question. I state once again that you are making it seem that you are a gnostic.

Dude I don't really care about what you may think

 

[AustinC]

you have not shown a single piece of what I have writen anywhere on BB, that is wrong? What you have written, and even charged me with is FALSE, due to your lack of grasp on Christology. This is clear to me from what I have read you write.

Prove me wrong from the Bible, and I will admit it. Prove that I have EVER denied or diminished the "human nature" in Jesus Christ, and I will admit it. If you cannot understand deep Christology, then I suggest that you pray and ask the Lord to guide you, but there is no point in making FALSE statements against me, when it is clear that your reasoning is in error!

Let's see. You have shown us that you are an amateur in the greek language, yet it is only your translation you accept. You have avoided simple questions and not denied gnosticism.
The onus is on you to answer a simple question. Did Jesus live on this earth as a flesh and blood human being?

Hebrews 2:14-17
Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery. For surely it is not angels that he helps, but he helps the offspring of Abraham. Therefore he had to be made like his brothers in every respect, so that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in the service of God, to make propitiation for the sins of the people.

Hebrews 2:14-17

Because God’s children are human beings—made of flesh and blood—the Son also became flesh and blood. For only as a human being could he die, and only by dying could he break the power of the devil, who had the power of death. Only in this way could he set free all who have lived their lives as slaves to the fear of dying. We also know that the Son did not come to help angels; he came to help the descendants of Abraham. Therefore, it was necessary for him to be made in every respect like us, his brothers and sisters, so that he could be our merciful and faithful High Priest before God. Then he could offer a sacrifice that would take away the sins of the people.

 

[AustinC]

Dude I don't really care about what you may think

Sure you do.
And still you avoid the obvious question.
At this point no one on the BB can read this thread without concluding you have gnostic beliefs about Jesus and therefore do not hold the same gospel as orthodox Christian faith. Perhaps this is why you misunderstand grace.

 

[JesusFan]

because you do not understand the Incarnation.

Did God become a real human male then?

 

[JesusFan]

you have not shown a single piece of what I have writen anywhere on BB, that is wrong? What you have written, and even charged me with is FALSE, due to your lack of grasp on Christology. This is clear to me from what I have read you write.

Prove me wrong from the Bible, and I will admit it. Prove that I have EVER denied or diminished the "human nature" in Jesus Christ, and I will admit it. If you cannot understand deep Christology, then I suggest that you pray and ask the Lord to guide you, but there is no point in making FALSE statements against me, when it is clear that your reasoning is in error!

was Jesus fully human, and is he still human right now? the eternal God man?

 

[JesusFan]

Sure you do.
And still you avoid the obvious question.
At this point no one on the BB can read this thread without concluding you have gnostic beliefs about Jesus and therefore do not hold the same gospel as orthodox Christian faith. Perhaps this is why you misunderstand grace.

How can Jesus not be fully human per the Bible account?

 

[SavedByGrace]

How can Jesus not be fully human per the Bible account?

because we humans have a sinful nature, and Jesus Christ cannot, His "human nature" is 100% sinless.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Did God become a real human male then?

what does Incarnation mean?

 

[agedman]

We all need to remember, the body of the Word when conception occurred was Fully human flesh and fully divine.

Unlike the Roman and Greek gods, who each had at least one human frailty or fleshly weakness in which they could be resisted or even be over come, the messiah had no such human frailty or weakness.

Our Lord’s humanity is experienced because He was in “all points tested as we”. Humans are. He expressed hunger and thirst, weariness and sleep, will and desire, hope and longing,

More often, in our age, folks seem to run to embrace His humanity especially in the arts where we can identify with his emotions, pain, sorrow, gladness, hope, desire, trauma, anger…. Imo, is this is also evident in the fine arts in the Middle Ages. Seems as though the French and American revolution wars, and the Victorian period showed folks at polar extremes of great fervor or in feverish denial. (Example: Moody, Freud)

Our Lord was never a split personality, for just as believers strive to do, our Lord brought His physical, emotional, and mind under complete dominance of the authority as God. Though He humbled Himself and became a human being, from Birth He displayed the attributes of God.

This is realized by the first miracle account. His mother already knew his mission and ability, she never ask Him to perform, but knowing the Son as only Mary could, she turned to the service folks and said, “Do what He tells you,” and apparently just walks way.

100% Humanity and 100% Deity, inseparable, and never to be questioned.

 

[AustinC]

How can Jesus not be fully human per the Bible account?

The Bible tells us Jesus is fully human and fully God. Hebrews 1 and Hebrews 2 tell us this.
sbg knows if he denies the full humanity of Jesus, he will be banned from the BB. Therefore he is doing everything in his power to avoid speaking directly to a simple yes or no question. The unwillingness to answer speaks volumes and thus lands him in the gnostic community by virtue of his avoidance in answering.

 

[SavedByGrace]

100% Humanity and 100% Deity, inseparable, and never to be questioned

The human nature of Jesus Christ is completely sinless, therefore He is not like our fallen human nature, but One that is Perfect, as the God-Man. Still fully God and fully Man, God manifested in the flesh.

 

[agedman]

The Bible tells us Jesus is fully human and fully God. Hebrews 1 and Hebrews 2 tell us this.
sbg knows if he denies the full humanity of Jesus, he will be banned from the BB. Therefore he is doing everything in his power to avoid speaking directly to a simple yes or no question. The unwillingness to answer speaks volumes and thus lands him in the gnostic community by virtue of his avoidance in answering.

Gnostic thinking permeated the early first century church until band as heretical. Sometime in the mid 1900’s the only information we had was primarily from Irenaeus.

After a library in Egypt was discovered more information was found and brought the problem more in focus.

When the teaching of Gnosticism was band in the Western churches, those in the east and farthest east continued. The results have been aligned by some with such as Buddhism and Shinto teachings.

 

[agedman]

The human nature of Jesus Christ is completely sinless, therefore He is not like our fallen human nature, but One that is Perfect, as the God-Man. Still fully God and fully Man, God manifested in the flesh.

This is true, which is one reason He is as the First Adam, pre-fall.

The difference though is not one in which did not have the nature of a man, including a human will, it that unlike Adam He not only was sinless, but brought every aspect of the humanness under the Authority of the Divine.

 

[agedman]

This is true, which is one reason He is as the First Adam, pre-fall.

The difference though is not one in which did not have the nature of a man, including a human will, it that unlike Adam He not only was sinless, but brought every aspect of the humanness under the Authority of the Divine.

This is what the first Adam should have done, but he chose Eve over God.

 

[atpollard]

what does Incarnation mean?

Definition of incarnation

1: the act of incarnating : the state of being incarnate
2: a particular physical form or state : VERSION

• in another incarnation he might be a first vice-president— Walter Teller
• TV and movie incarnations of the story

3a: a concrete or actual form of a quality or concept

especially : a person showing a trait or typical character to a marked degree​

• she is the incarnation of goodness

b.

(1)capitalized : the union of divinity with humanity in Jesus Christ
(2): the embodiment of a deity or spirit in some earthly form​

 

[SavedByGrace]

Definition of incarnation

1: the act of incarnating : the state of being incarnate
2: a particular physical form or state : VERSION

• in another incarnation he might be a first vice-president— Walter Teller
• TV and movie incarnations of the story

3a: a concrete or actual form of a quality or concept

especially : a person showing a trait or typical character to a marked degree​

• she is the incarnation of goodness

b.

(1)capitalized : the union of divinity with humanity in Jesus Christ
(2): the embodiment of a deity or spirit in some earthly form​

the Incarnation of Jesus Christ, is when the Eternal God, the Second Person in the Godhead/Trinity, entered the womb of the Virgin Mary, and part-took of her "human nature" in its fullness, apart from any sin (Matthew 1:16, 18, 20, 23; Luke 1:35, KJV; Romans 8:4; Hebrews 7:26, etc). He remained Almighty God, being in the "very nature God" (Philippians 2:5-6); but took upon Himself the "very nature of Man" (Philippians 2:6:7-8), and became "God manifested in the flesh" (John 1:1, 14; 1 Timothy 3:16, KJV). The God-Man. Jesus Christ is still in heaven as The God-Man, and will Return in the same Bodly way that He went into heaven (Acts 1:11)