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How no English version is the fully-Inspired Word

Elfin

New Member
Inspired data is not reproduced in the sufficiency of Inspired information. Therefore, to worship the data of a Translation is to commit a basic hermeneutical error.

There is something wrong within the self-professedly most Conservative segment of Christianity. It has to do with something which many in this segment make of Genesis 1:1. Specifically, it is about what they like to believe is the Bible's first idea. More specifically, it is an idolatry of the English word-order of the verse:


In the beginning God |

created |

the Heaven and the Earth.​


This is NOT the word-order of the Hebrew:


In the beginning created |

| God

| the heaven and the Earth.​


Notice that this Hebrew word-order puts 'God' in the center between anticipation and fulfillment.

The English word-order, on the other hand, suggests the idea that God is more essentially aloof than He is the genuinely generous creator of the things we naturally recognize as good.

The Hebrew word-order implies a direct relation between the Creator and the Creation, and this a benevolent, even intimate relation. The English word-order, by contrast, suggests that the first idea the Bible teaches is that,

  • 'In the beginning God.' ('So you better cow to Him.', and, or, 'He is aloof.')
But Genesis 1, the first part of the Bible, most naturally is seen to affirm our everyday natural most broad sense of things, not to affirm some aloofly all-powerful kind of deity. Aloof and tyrannical is not the description of the power of the Creator in this account.

Yet it has become fashionable among the more dogmatic kinds of Christians to worship the English word-order of Genesis 1:1, as if the verse has an implicit preamble that is more important than even the English syntax approximating the Hebrew meaning: 'In the beginning, God created...'. Thus:

Preamble: 'In the beginning God.' ('So you better cow to Him.', and, or, 'He is aloof.')​

The point here is graphic, like a primitive sign language, not syntactic according to a verbal language. It is a consideration of the English word order as being more important than the English syntax.

A syntax is a convention of meaning-to-word-order. But word-order without syntax is just word order. And word-order, by itself, suggests its own priority, regardless of the convention of syntax-to-meaning.

But it is the Hebrew word-order of v. 1 that is in keeping with the Hebrew syntax of the whole chapter. The English word-order, on the other hand, undercuts the English syntax. Thus, the first idea presented by the English word-order is contrary to the first idea presented by the English syntax. And even the English syntax is but a pale shadow of the depth of the Hebrew.

Therefore, there is NO English version of Genesis chapter 1 (not even the Authorized King James version) that completely represents the power of the Hebrew text.

Fortunately, it is by our everyday natural most broad sense of things, not by some 'Platonic' worshipfulness, that Genesis 1 seems to us to teach that God created in six days. In other words, it is by our own natural context that the account seems plainly to affirm our everyday normal life-centric terrestrial values of the day-night cycle, the water cycle, etc.. The account thereby even seems to begin with a concern for the wider cosmos and our actual Earth; then for our Earth's actual water; its day-night cycle; its water cycle; its air' its land and seas; etc.. Thus, as the account seems to progress, it goes from the more general things to the more and more special things, ending with us, humans. Like this:

1. the general cosmos and the special Earth.

2. The Earth, as its own general subject, implying that which we all intuit is most valuable about the Earth unto itself in all the cosmos: its abiding maximal abundance of open liquid water.

3. that water and its special relation to the Sun's light, hence the water cycle;

4. The water cycle and its special beneficiary and member, biology;

5. biology and its special category, animal biology (plant/animal/mineral = animal);

6. Animal biology and its special category, human;

7. The man and the woman wife (Genesis 2:21-23)​

This seven-fold recursion shows that, contrary to either a godless or a Platonic cum Deistic outlook, Genesis 1:1 is concerned primarily to affirm the fact that, since the Living God designed and created us, we not only are not insignificant, we are the central value of the entire account and of the entire cosmos. For, this view of v. 1 sets the theme for the rest of the account.

Even more, this seven-fold recursion fits the fact that the account conspicuously lacks mention of any material origin for humans, and only for humans. This uniquely human lack of such mention at once (A) poses humans as transcending the Earth and (B) as implying that such mention is to be anticipated, as a completion to the first chapter. Per 7, this anticipation is fulfilled in Genesis chapter 2.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Another way to look it is the use of words. Words are essentially symbols that carry a meaning. Does English translations convey the meaning intended by God?
 

agedman

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
...

Even more, this seven-fold recursion fits the fact that the account conspicuously lacks mention of any material origin for humans, and only for humans. This uniquely human lack of such mention at once (A) poses humans as transcending the Earth and (B) as implying that such mention is to be anticipated, as a completion to the first chapter. Per 7, this anticipation is fulfilled in Genesis chapter 2.[/QUOTE]

I am not certain this is accurate at this point.

Do not the Scriptures state:

"7Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground..."​

"22And from the rib that the LORD God had taken from the man, He made a woman and brought her to him.
23And the man said:
“This is now bone of my bones
and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called ‘woman,’
for out of man she was taken.”​

It acknowledge that God's dust is certainly of higher quality then what accumulates around me.
I remember doing some carpentry work (decades ago) and the dust certainly wasn't much used but to be a warmth when burned in the cold mornings.

Maybe that is why the second death has such an unquenchable fire - too much "dust"?
 

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
Fundamentalism teaches that the actual original words breathed out by God are inspired, infallible, inerrant, complete, effective, and perfect. Those words have been kept and never "lost".

No translation of those words into any language can be given that same status. They are man-made (in a receptor language) not God-breathed.

When teaching comparative religions at Pillsbury College in Minnesota, I worked with an imam in Rochester and took students to see first-hand Islamic worship and then follow-up with questions. One asked why all Moslems must learn Arabic and study only in the original language. He said that the message was lost or at least diluted so to be of no effect if translated. He gave us a copy in English for the Class.

He then asked why WE didn't demand the same fidelity to the original language of the New Testament. One grad student astutely answered that while a translation could never 100% be inspired, perfect or inerrant in another language, it WAS effective. God uses it in changing lives, conversion, et al. That was the difference from the "dead" words of the Q'ran and the living/effectual words of the Bible.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
So thankful God's Spirit used the not-quite perfect translation of the AV1901 to enlighten my eyes with the Gospel message 65 years ago.
The Holy Spirit can use the Kjv, Nas, esv Nkjv as he is not limited and bound to a specific translation!
 

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
The Holy Spirit can use the Kjv, Nas, esv Nkjv as he is not limited and bound to a specific translation!
Amen. I simply mentioned MY testimony. Had some KJVonly sect say I was NOT saved because I didn't use the "true incorruptible seed", KJV

I asked WHICH KJV of the 100+ different versions is the TRUE seed? No answer
 

John of Japan

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
@Elfin. Welcome to the BB! I hope you are blessed here.

I have no desire to respond to your entire post, but I will say that the word order in a translation is not sacrosanct. Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that the Hebrew word order must be followed in the translation? If so, I could not disagree more.

Word order is different in different languages. In English it is SVO, subject-verb-object. In Japanese it is SOV. The verb must come last or the meaning changes (the verb may become adjectival). So Hebrew or English word order does not work in Japanese.
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
Amen. I simply mentioned MY testimony. Had some KJVonly sect say I was NOT saved because I didn't use the "true incorruptible seed", KJV

I asked WHICH KJV of the 100+ different versions is the TRUE seed? No answer
The Kjvo have to answer which Kjv and which TR would be the "correct and perfect one", as doubt very many were saved under the 1611 version, more of the later editions!
 

Logos1560

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Just like other English Bible translations, the KJV is not an every-word, word-for-word Bible translation.

As noted in the introduction by John R. Kohlenberger III and James A. Swanson in the 2001 The Strongest Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the KJV translators used multiple-word translation in English for single original-language words more than 44,000 times, and single-word translation in English for multiple words in the original languages more than 14,000 times, and they added 34,712 words in English for which there were no original-language words (pp. x, xiii). In the 1873 Cambridge edition of the KJV, there are 34,712 words in italics. The KJV translators also sometimes used "substitution" translation such as substituting nouns for pronouns and pronouns for nouns [example, "Jesus" in Matthew 9:10 translated a Greek pronoun that would be translated "he"].

In addition, over one thousand times (and likely thousands of times) the KJV translators provided no English word where there was an original-language word of Scripture in their underlying texts, which would prove that the KJV is not an every-word translation. In their marginal notes in the 1611, the KJV translators themselves sometimes provided an English rendering for original-language words in their underlying texts that they did not include in the English text of their translation.
 
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