Is believing/faith a work ?3

[AustinC]

Please go ahead and enlighten me on Ephesians 2:8-9. Show me how I’m wrong.

“By grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is a gift of God. Not of works lest any man boast”.

Please address the “SAVED, THROUH FAITH” statement and how that relates to your premise that faith is a work.

peace to you

Wait a second.
I explained Ephesians 2:8-9 in the context of Ephesians 2:1-9...and you outright rejected the whole.
You abandon context to create an interpretation of your own wishes that would ignore everything surrounding the verse. Therefore, your statement here is entirely disingenuous. There is literally nothing a person could possibly show you, apart from our King physically stand before you and outright tell you that you are wrong. This exercise is pointless because you have hedged yourself into a hole and refuse to come out and look at the whole.
In this matter, you are free to be entirely wrong and shown to be wrong, yet live in your wrong thinking.
I will end my conversation in this thread with you.
Peace

 

[canadyjd]

Wait a second.
I explained Ephesians 2:8-9 in the context of Ephesians 2:1-9...and you outright rejected the whole.
You abandon context to create an interpretation of your own wishes that would ignore everything surrounding the verse. Therefore, your statement here is entirely disingenuous. There is literally nothing a person could possibly show you, apart from our King physically stand before you and outright tell you that you are wrong. This exercise is pointless because you have hedged yourself into a hole and refuse to come out and look at the whole.
In this matter, you are free to be entirely wrong and shown to be wrong, yet live in your wrong thinking.
I will end my conversation in this thread with you.
Peace

Your explanation of Ephesians 2 left out the phrase “saved through faith”. Not surprising, since it destroys the premise of your belief.

If Paul was teaching what you believe, he would have said, “by grace ye are saved, then come faith..,”

But he didn’t say that because it isn’t true. “By grace are ye saved, THROUGH FAITH”. Paul clearly identifies faith as the means of attaining a right relationship with God (saved). He then immediately proclaims works are not involved, thereby destroying your premise that faith is a work.

Try, if you are able, to explain away Paul’s statement that we are saved “through faith”. Please specifically address “saved through faith”

How can you dismiss God’s word so easily and embrace the heresy that people are “saved” without faith in Jesus?

peace to you

 

[AustinC]

Your explanation of Ephesians 2 left out the phrase “saved through faith”. Not surprising, since it destroys the premise of your belief.

If Paul was teaching what you believe, he would have said, “by grace ye are saved, then come faith..,”

But he didn’t say that because it isn’t true. “By grace are ye saved, THROUGH FAITH”. Paul clearly identifies faith as the means of attaining a right relationship with God (saved). He then immediately proclaims works are not involved, thereby destroying your premise that faith is a work.

Try, if you are able, to explain away Paul’s statement that we are saved “through faith”. Please specifically address “saved through faith”

How can you dismiss God’s word so easily and embrace the heresy that people are “saved” without faith in Jesus?

peace to you

I did not leave it out. Re-read my first response where I explain how Paul's first statement, Saved by grace, is just after, God...even when we were dead, made us alive with Christ and seated us in heavenly places in Christ. This gives you the order of saved by grace, which produces the effect of by faith, which is not of ourself lest we should boast.
But you utterly ignore and throw away everything that comes before verses 8 and 9.

 

[canadyjd]

I did not leave it out. Re-read my first response where I explain how Paul's first statement, Saved by grace, is just after, God...even when we were dead, made us alive with Christ and seated us in heavenly places in Christ. This gives you the order of saved by grace, which produces the effect of by faith, which is not of ourself lest we should boast.
But you utterly ignore and throw away everything that comes before verses 8 and 9.

“SAVED THROUGH FAITH”. All you have to do to convince me to change my mind is to show me how “SAVED THROUGH FAITH” means “Saved first and faith comes later”.

You cannot come to grips with “saved through faith” because it destroys a your premise.

Paul is obviously giving more detail in verses 8-9 concerning salvation,Gods grace, and the role faith, not works, has in attaining that right relationship that puts us “in the heavenlies”.

peace to you

 

[AustinC]

“SAVED THROUGH FAITH”. All you have to do to convince me to change my mind is to show me how “SAVED THROUGH FAITH” means “Saved first and faith comes later”.

You cannot come to grips with “saved through faith” because it destroys a your premise.

Paul is obviously giving more detail in verses 8-9 concerning salvation,Gods grace, and the role faith, not works, has in attaining that right relationship that puts us “in the heavenlies”.

peace to you

I stand upon the whole word of God. If I only read bits and pieces, I might have your view, but I read the whole and see that God teaches gracious salvation as the cause and faith as the effect.

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
~ Ephesians 2:1-10

 

[canadyjd]

I stand upon the whole word of God. If I only read bits and pieces, I might have your view, but I read the whole and see that God teaches gracious salvation as the cause and faith as the effect.

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
~ Ephesians 2:1-10

And so do I. The difference is I can reconcile my views with the “whole word of God” and you cannot.

As proof, you cannot reconcile Ephesians 2:8-9 with your beliefs. “By grace are ye saved, through faith….” Saved through faith.

You will not even attempt to reconcile it, because you know you cannot; you simply ignore it because it destroys your premise that faith is a work.

Don’t presume to lecture me on believing the “whole word of God”. Your arrogance is crippling your reason.

peace to you

 

[AustinC]

And so do I. The difference is I can reconcile my views with the “whole word of God” and you cannot.

As proof, you cannot reconcile Ephesians 2:8-9 with your beliefs. “By grace are ye saved, through faith….” Saved through faith.

You will not even attempt to reconcile it, because you know you cannot; you simply ignore it because it destroys your premise that faith is a work.

Don’t presume to lecture me on believing the “whole word of God”. Your arrogance is crippling your reason.

peace to you

You haven't reconciled anything. In fact you have not shared anything but Ephesians 2:8-9. You have actually limited God to two verses that you misunderstand.
Not only did I share with you the whole of the passage, but I also showed how it fits with Hebrews 12:1-3,which tells us that Jesus authors faith and completes it.
You can continue to call me any name you wish, but the fact remains that God's grace is the cause of salvation and faith is the effect.

 

[AustinC]

And so do I. The difference is I can reconcile my views with the “whole word of God” and you cannot.

As proof, you cannot reconcile Ephesians 2:8-9 with your beliefs. “By grace are ye saved, through faith….” Saved through faith.

I have reconciled this at least twice with you.

You will not even attempt to reconcile it, because you know you cannot; you simply ignore it because it destroys your premise that faith is a work.

I have reconciled it at least twice. Have you simply not read what I have written?

Don’t presume to lecture me on believing the “whole word of God”. Your arrogance is crippling your reason.

You have, not once, gone beyond a verse or two. Moreso, you rarely even exegete the verse. I am confident readers here can see how this thread has played out.

peace to you

Peace

 

[canadyjd]

You haven't reconciled anything. In fact you have not shared anything but Ephesians 2:8-9. You have actually limited God to two verses that you misunderstand.
Not only did I share with you the whole of the passage, but I also showed how it fits with Hebrews 12:1-3,which tells us that Jesus authors faith and completes it.
You can continue to call me any name you wish, but the fact remains that God's grace is the cause of salvation and faith is the effect.

And still, you cannot address Ephesians 2:8-9. “Saved through faith”. Very clear. It destroys your premise that faith is a work. Please just show me how “saved through faith” doesn’t mean what it says, instead it means “saved first and faith comes later”.

Don’t just say it. Go to the Greek. Show me the Greek word for “through” really means “faith is the effect of salvation” rather than the natural understanding of the word as the means through which faith is attained.

Show me where I “called you names” and I’ll apologize. Pointing out your arrogance has crippled your reason is not calling you names.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

I have reconciled this at least twice with you.



I have reconciled it at least twice. Have you simply not read what I have written?



You have, not once, gone beyond a verse or two. Moreso, you rarely even exegete the verse. I am confident readers here can see how this thread has played out.


Peace

Ignoring Ephesians 2:8-9 isn’t reconciling it to the “whole word of God”.

I have read what you have written. Your reasoning if faulty and contrary to many passages of scripture. I have given you two passages. You have dismissed them by saying they don’t mean what the plain reading of scripture reveals.

I do hope folks reading this thread will recognize the premise that “faith is a work” is totally destroyed by Ephesians 2:8-9

“By grace are ye saved, through faith, and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God, not of works lest any man boast”.

The Apostle Paul states very clearly we are “saved through faith” and then adds no works are involved. Demonstrating faith is the means by which salvation is attained and no works are involved.

In one short passage of God’s word, your premise is destroyed.

I urge you to accept the plain meaning of God’s word.

peace to you