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Featured The New Testament, and the Early Church

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by ntchristian, Feb 3, 2022.

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  1. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    New thread started.

    PROVE PSA is Scriptural.
     
    #41 agedman, Feb 3, 2022
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  2. kyredneck

    kyredneck Well-Known Member
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    Yes, God would have intervened had the Son asked for it*:

    53 Or thinkest thou that I cannot beseech my Father, and he shall even now send me more than twelve legions of angels?
    54 How then should the scriptures be fulfilled that thus it must be? Mt 26


    * 27 Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour. But for this cause came I unto this hour. Jn 12
     
    #42 kyredneck, Feb 3, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2022
  3. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    I did read my replies

    starting with where I quote Isaiah
     
    #43 Marooncat79, Feb 3, 2022
  4. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    #44 Marooncat79, Feb 3, 2022
  5. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.

    Isaiah 53:5
     
    #45 Marooncat79, Feb 3, 2022
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  6. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    He indeed was. Of course, even Christians who reject the Penal Substitution Theory of Atonement belueve this.
     
    #46 JonC, Feb 3, 2022
  7. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

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    Then you must believe that the early church and the church of the first millenium were heretical.
     
    #47 ntchristian, Feb 3, 2022
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  8. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

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    That is a false charge, and you lay it against not only me but Christians in the first millenium. Just to be crystal clear.

    BTW, I thought it was not allowed to question one's salvation here.
     
    #48 ntchristian, Feb 3, 2022
  9. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

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    To the extent that any church does not hold to scripture and the teachings of the early church, that church holds to another Gospel. That is true of much that Protestantism holds.

    It cannot be stated often enough: Christianity in its origins is an Eastern religion. The early church held Eastern, not Western, views.
     
    #49 ntchristian, Feb 3, 2022
  10. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

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    Thank you. I take solace in your post.

    I am constantly astonished at the ignorance by Western Christians of the atonement view held in the East, in the NT, and in the early church.

    Yes, I believe I could possibly find common fellowship with certain Mennonite churches, if there were any near me.

    Seeing that you, and JonC, are Baptists gives me some slight hope that I might be able to be one also.
     
    #50 ntchristian, Feb 3, 2022
  11. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

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    You don't know what the text says because you cannot or refuse to see it in the context in which it was written -- an Eastern one.
     
    #51 ntchristian, Feb 3, 2022
  12. ntchristian

    ntchristian Active Member

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    Okay, I am through arguing the atonement in this thread, especially with someone who has accused me of being a non-believer. I did not post the thread to argue the atonement. But it does prove that many Christians with a Western mindset are incapable, willfully or not, of reading and interpreting scripture in the context in which it was written, thus consigning to heresy all of the early church and the church of the first millenium.
     
    #52 ntchristian, Feb 3, 2022
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  13. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    They mean different things....but both deal with atonement (and are different translations of the same original word).

    Regardless, in Christ we escape the wrath to come...so there is propitiation.

    It is not Penal Substitution Theory (which is a gross addition to Scripture), but we can't ignore wrath.
     
    #53 JonC, Feb 3, 2022
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  14. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Members hold traditions and beliefs very close. These discussions always get heated, and real debate is never had.

    This is true of the Eastern tradition as well (they are not unaffected by historical secular influences either).

    The benefit for those able to hear is we can learn from one another.
     
    #54 JonC, Feb 3, 2022
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  15. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    The church will not be on earth when God pours the bowls of wrath upon it.
     
    #55 agedman, Feb 3, 2022
  16. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Folks, take PSA discussions to the thread I started.
     
    #56 agedman, Feb 3, 2022
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  17. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    #57 JonC, Feb 3, 2022
  18. DaveXR650

    DaveXR650 Well-Known Member

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    @ntchristian. My post was not to engage in an argument about the theories of the atonement. In light of your original post - if you are searching for answers, a central place to start has to be about the cross. All forms of Christianity have the cross as central to it's existence. What I was interested in was what does the death of Christ mean to YOU, in your own words. That will help determine which type of church would be best for you. For instance, most Baptists could not articulate a "theory of the atonement", but if you reject the idea that in some way Christ died for your sins then you cannot be a Baptist. So that narrows down your search.
     
    #58 DaveXR650, Feb 3, 2022
  19. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu Active Member
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    FYI, Islam rejects the Substitutional Atonement.
    Everyone should take the responsibility for his or her own sins in Islam
    I refute them by saying that Jesus Christ is the Son of God different from any human beings and that He could take over the sins of the world and die on behalf of the others, to the effect that whosoever believes in Him is forgiven by virtue of His Blood and His Death.
    I think only the Christianity has the Substitutional Atonement because of the Son of God, Jesus Christ. In other religions like all paganism, Substitutional Atonement cannot be found as nobody claimed he was dying for the sins of the world
    The fact that Jesus Christ died in one's stead is the core truth of the Christian Faith which can never be found in other religions.

    Eliyahu
     
    #59 Eliyahu, Feb 4, 2022
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  20. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    But if he does not have the true Gospel, what good will be coming here until that is remedied?
     
    #60 JesusFan, Feb 4, 2022
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