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Featured The Wrath of God

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by atpollard, Feb 17, 2022.

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  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    No, that is what NT Wright and His NPP ilk assert
     
  2. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    The wraith of the father towards sins is not petty emotionalism nor selfish anger, as its Holy response to unholiness!
     
  3. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    What you choose to call Neo is really Pauline Justification
     
  4. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    God still has a Holy wrath against sins, and upon sinners who reject Jesus to save them, active not a passive one!
     
  5. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    The wrath of the Father towards Jesus NOT due to Jesus being a sinner, but that he was bearing now as the sin bearer those sins, and as such, was as if was sinness incarnated to a Holy God!
     
  6. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Still seems to be pretty close to how the NPP defines it
     
  7. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I don't know enough of NT Wright to say, but it certainly is the majority view within the Christian faith (with different focuses), except the RCC and Reformed theology.

    I just don't think the Latin view sufficient.
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    But he was pierced for our transgressions; = God's wrath


    he was crushed for our iniquities; = God's wrath


    upon him was the chastisement = God's wrath


    For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God.—1 Peter 3:18 = substituting the innocent for the guilty
     
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  9. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    You use much of their terminology though, especially as in Vindication and the wrath of man and the world!
     
  10. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    In the sin offering, the victim is slain and cut up. Some of the internal organs of the sin offering were burned on the brazen altar and rose as a sweet savor, showing that the victim itself was righteous and pleasing to God.

    But the body of the victim was taken outside the camp, (Jesus was crucified outside the walls of Jerusalem) and together with the dung, the uncleanness (Jesus was made to be sin), was burned to ash in exile from the dwelling place of God, consumed in fiery indignation.

    Our sin was penalized completely in the body of Jesus.

    If there is a divine response to sin other than wrath and indignation . . . and note that I said response to sin, not sinner . . . then the question of whether or not Jesus, bearing our sins, was touched with the wrath of God, may be a valid question.
     
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  11. Aaron

    Aaron Member
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    The fact remains that the Ark was touched with the judgment of God. And no, the flood and the buffeting were not mercies. The Ark was.

    God was not constrained by necessity to deliver Noah with a boat. The Ark is a picture of Christ. And the Ark was touched with the judgement of God upon sin.
     
  12. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    What is absent and unBiblical? Terminology?
     
  13. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Does He deny Ezekiel 18:4, Romans 6:23 and Romans 5:8 with Isaiah 53:6, Psalms 22:1 and Isaiah 53:12, ". . . because he hath poured out his soul unto death: . . ."?
    We need to deal with the specifics.
    The fact is some of us believe the same Scriptures. The disagreement is in what those text do not explicitly say.
     
  14. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    So in Isaiah 53:6 had God committed an abomination? The one who bore our sins was innocent was He not?
     
    #54 37818, Feb 18, 2022
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2022
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  15. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Jesus on the cross when He had our sins place on Him, He was forsaken by God per Psalms 22:1 and Psalms 22:6. And it was completed before John 19:28 prior to Jesus saying it, John 19:30, and dying physically for the purpose of His bodily resurrection.
     
  16. 37818

    37818 Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 53:6 is a penal substution, what is Biblical which includes Isaiah 53:10 and Isaiah 53:12 and contexts in our chapter of Isaiah.
     
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  17. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but God still appears to punish His People for disobedience while disobedience is almost expected from His enemies.

    "It is for discipline that you endure; God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline?" - Hebrews 12:7
     
  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    "WRATH" is a word YOU inserted. It did not appear in the Scripture that I quoted.
    (Inserting words makes ME nervous ... I prefer to find them already from the lips of God.) ... Hence this TOPIC to discuss verses and seek more verses (and wisdom).
     
  19. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Wrath (from Merriam-Webster):
    1 : strong vengeful anger or indignation
    2 : retributory punishment for an offense or a crime : divine chastisement

    "pierced/crushed/chastisement" = PUNISHMENT (for us) / our punishment ... absolutely no question; Yes.
    God's "strong vengeful anger" directed against Christ ... God's "retributory punishment" directed against Christ ... IT DOES NOT ACTUALLY SAY THAT.

    Please show me where it says that God was angry with Christ at the Crucifixion? (Obviously it will NOT be worded like that.)
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    OK since you engaged me I will respond so long as you can behave yourself.


    You are downplaying what is happening in those verses. It is the equivalent to timeout in the corner, "punishment" and pierced, crushed, chastisement Those are not simply as punishment.
     
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