Does God Ordain Everything That Takes Place?

[KenH]

Seems like you don't know what ORDAIN means. Check it out

I quite understand the word. I have no problem with believing that God ordains EVERYTHING. I find it to be a very comforting doctrine. I would hate to be living my life like a Deist, believing that my life was subject to the vagaries of the universe, that everything that happens is just random, except for maybe an instance here or an instance there.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I quite understand the word. I have no problem with believing that God ordains EVERYTHING. I find it to be a very comforting doctrine. I would hate to be living my life like a Deist, believing that my life was subject to the vagaries of the universe, that everything that happens is just random, except for maybe an instance here or an instance there.

Then you cannot excape the fact that God is also the author of sin. If you say what you do, and deny this, then show how this can be possible?

 

[KenH]

Then you cannot excape the fact that God is also the author of sin. If you say what you do, and deny this, then show how this can be possible?

I don't have to accept your human-based reasoning at all.

Look, we can go round and round about this from now until the cows come home. If you want to live your life believing that it is subject to the vagaries of the universe, being pushed here, there, and yonder by forces outside your control and, much more importantly, outside of God's control, go ahead.

 

[AustinC]

Does God's Foreknowledge equate to Foreordaining?

If I knew that someone would commit adultery, does it mean that I ordained it?

Reformed theology is trying to put God in a box and say what He can and cannot do

Are you God?

God knows when someone commits adultery. By allowing the sin to happen, God ordains it. When God does not allow the sin to happen, God ordains it. In either situation, God has ordained it, meaning that in His Providence the action allowed fits into God's perfect plan.
The whole book of Job explains this, yet you seem determined to deny God's declaration to you in scripture.

How is it that you have such a low view of God?

 

[AustinC]

Then you cannot excape the fact that God is also the author of sin. If you say what you do, and deny this, then show how this can be possible?

Not even close. Your incapacity to grasp what God has revealed in scripture leads you to accuse God.

 

[KenH]

How is it that you have such a low view of God?

People want to feel in control, even if it means they deny that God is in control. They want to think that they are the master of their own fate. They are self-deluded. They think that life is random unless they are in control of it in some form or fashion, not accepting that God is in control.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I don't have to accept your human-based reasoning at all.

Look, we can go round and round about this from now until the cows come home. If you want to live your life believing that it is subject to the vagaries of the universe, being pushed here, there, and yonder by forces outside your control and, much more importantly, outside of God's control, go ahead.

I fully believe what the Bible and not man-made, especially "Reformed" theology teaches.

It is very clear from the Bible that God is Almighty, and All-knowing, and Perfectly Holy. He cannot and does not "order" anyone to sin, as it is completely against His Perfect Holy Nature. He knows everything from eternity to eternity, but this does not mean that He "orders" everything that comes to pass.

Your comments on what I am supposed to believe, are not only completely wrong, but a cheap shot!

 

[SavedByGrace]

People want to feel in control, even if it means they deny that God is in control. They want to think that they are the master of their own fate. They are self-deluded. They think that life is random unless they are in control of it in some form or fashion, not accepting that God is in control.

when any human being chooses to sin, they are in full control of their actions! Are you saying that a person who murders is not in control of their actions?

 

[KenH]

but this does not mean that He "orders" everything that comes to pass.

Yes, the God of the Bible "orders" everything that comes to pass - to His ultimate glory. I have no doubt that the "God" of your human-based reasoning is not totally in control of His creation.

 

[KenH]

when any human being chooses to sin, they are in full control of their actions! Are you saying that a person who murders is not in control of their actions?

Are you saying that God cannot use someone committing murder to His glory, such as when Moses murdered the Egyptian? Do you believe that Moses killing the Egyptian was just a random act that God saw and thought, "Oh good, I can take advantage of that random act by Moses to get him out of Egypt so he can see the burning bush forty years from now"?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Are you saying that God cannot use someone committing murder to His glory, such as when Moses murdered the Egyptian? Do you believe that Moses killing the Egyptian was just a random act that God saw and thought, "Oh good, I can take advantage of that random act by Moses to get him out of Egypt so he can see the burning bush forty years from now"?

so you are saying that God ORDERED that Moses murder the Egyptian? Did God also ORDER that David commit adultery, and then have Uriah murdered? And then God sends Nathan the Prophet to condemn David for his actions? This makes God UNJUST!

 

[DaveXR650]

"For both (views), the problem remains. How could a holy God, if he is all powerful, have permitted the existence of sin? What shall we do with the problem? I'm afraid we shall have to do with it something that is not very pleasing to our pride; I'm afraid we shall just have to say that it is insoluble".
J. Gresham Machen, What is Predestination.

God has revealed in scripture glimpses for us to see, but I don't think it is possible to figure out. And Reformed theology doesn't do worse than other systems.

 

[KenH]

Many people believe that God is basically playing checkers - man makes a move, then God makes move, then man makes a move, then God makes a move. They try to equate the creature with the Creator and fall into the trap of the folks described in Romans chapter 1 - Romans 1:25 who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

 

[KenH]

This makes God UNJUST!

With your human-based reasoning, I have no doubt that you feel that way. You are totally wrong.

 

[agedman]

A question on a post ask:

Did God create evil?

For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. (Colossians 1)​

Did not God create Lucifer? Yes.

Did God form Lucifer with rebellion in his nature? NO.

Neither did He create Adam with rebellion in his nature.

Do not blame God for actions in which demonstrate that rebellion.

 

[SavedByGrace]

With your human-based reasoning, I have no doubt that you feel that way. You are totally wrong.

you are wrong in what you are trying to argue, but simply cannot admit this, because of your theology

 

[KenH]

you are wrong in what you are trying to argue, but simply cannot admit this, because of your theology

I have shared the truth of God's absolute sovereignty. Obviously, we have very different worldviews. I see no value in continuing to do this:

I wish you a good day, sir.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I have shared the truth of God's absolute sovereignty. Obviously, we have very different worldviews. I see no value in continuing to do this:

I wish you a good day, sir.

may the Lord bless your walk with Him, and give you wisdom and understading as you study His Word

 

[SavedByGrace]

A question on a post ask:

Did God create evil?

For in Him all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him. (Colossians 1)​

Did not God create Lucifer? Yes.

Did God form Lucifer with rebellion in his nature? NO.

Neither did He create Adam with rebellion in his nature.

Do not blame God for actions in which demonstrate that rebellion.

do humans have FREE WILLS?

 

[agedman]

yet again you don't read what the OP says, and then comment!

We could ask, if God created ALL things, WHERE did Lucifer get his rebellion from?

I responded to a post in the thread and not to the OP.