Do you agree?

[JesusFan]

If the church is having an outreach event, sure, invite people to that. But no, I don't invite people to church for the purpose of evangelism, no.

We never have asked anyone if they were saved before they were allowed in though!

 

[Reformed1689]

Jesus asked us to invite everyone into his table, and so to speak the gather of the body would be just that!

No, not what that is referring to.

 

[Reformed1689]

We never have asked anyone if they were saved before they were allowed in though!

I didn't say that. Strawman argument.

 

[tyndale1946]

Church is a gathering place of the saints. It is not a hospital. To say go to church anyway when committing the sins of your O.P., would necessitate throwing out every admonishment of Church discipline given us by Paul.

I never said throw church discipline out the window... A member answers to the members of the church, they belong too... And are disciplined by that church... This is not a free for all, that all churches join in the discipline... And after the church is satisfied if satisfaction is achieved with repentance for the transgression then the member should be restored with full fellowship, no mater how long it takes... But in the mean time the member in question, should be shown the love of the church members and not be treated as a leper... Brother Glen

 

[Reynolds]

I never said throw church discipline out the window... A member answers to the members of the church, they belong too... And are disciplined by that church... This is not a free for all, that all churches join in the discipline... And after the church is satisfied if satisfaction is achieved with repentance for the transgression then the member should be restored with full fellowship, no mater how long it takes... But in the mean time the member in question, should be shown the love of the church members and not be treated as a leper... Brother Glen

Turn over to Satan for destruction of the flesh. That involves a complete shunning. I think the Amish and Mennonites still get that right.

 

[Reformed1689]

People living in unrepentant sin should not be members. That is a far cry from just attending. Shame on all of you.

I think you need to study biblical church discipline.

 

[Reformed1689]

Turn over to Satan for destruction of the flesh. That involves a complete shunning. I think the Amish and Mennonites still get that right.

Honestly the state of the American church is likely because of the lack of discipline. Thoughts?

 

[Revmitchell]

I think you need to study biblical church discipline.

Im sure you do but I am well versed in it. Church discipline and having lost people attend services are not the same thing.

 

[Reynolds]

Honestly the state of the American church is likely because of the lack of discipline. Thoughts?

Definitely a major factor. There is no emphasis on leading a sanctified life. Some churches emphasize legalism and mistake it for sanctification ...

 

[Reynolds]

When I was pastoring in NM and just outside the Rez we would often get drunks who would want to come in out of the cold. Some of them would soil themselves and the pew. The other members, some of them, wanted them not allowed to come in. They were mad that they stained the pews. I spent each and every time cleaning those pews. I would have done battle with my members over rejecting them. Nothing more ungodly.

In my first church in south central Florida we looked Hurricane Charlie in the eye. In the middle of the storm lost, Hispanic, grove workers came to the church for shelter. Some of them were hurt and needed medical care. I had the wife of the chairman of the deacons chew me out for doing that. See I allowed them to use "their" dishes and food to feed them and "their" sunday school supplies to entertain the children while the storm raged through the night. I told them that if I had to burn every table in the building for fire wood to minister to them I would.

Jesus dealt with those who wanted to separate themselves from the sinners. Yet he reached out to them and loved them. The pharisaical attitude I am seeing on this board in regards to sinners is both shocking and surprising. In my church sinners, much like Jesus reached out to, are welcome to attend as many services as they wish. I will do battle with anyone who tries to do otherwise. I am heart broken at what I see posted here. I didnt know such attitudes were this common. I thought only churches like Westboro Baptist Church took such attitudes. People should not have to get cleaned up to come to church. When we do that we are telling people that they need to get cleaned up to come to God. They dont know the difference.

Attending services and being a member are not the same thing. People living in unrepentant sin should not be members. That is a far cry from just attending. Shame on all of you.

Paul did not allow open sin in his congregations. Period! He did not distinguish member vs non. He did not allow it in the congregation. You are mistaking to the church with the world to which the church is supposed to evangelize.

 

[Revmitchell]

Paul did not allow open sin in his congregations. Period! He did not distinguish member vs non. He did not allow it in the congregation. You are mistaking to the church with the world to which the church is supposed to evangelize.

A lost person is not "in the congregation". Also you are making the mistake of assuming because Paul never addressed this issue that he considered lost visitors the same as believers in the congregation. That case just cannot be made. You guys have a problem looking for a place to land.

 

[Reynolds]

A lost person is not "in the congregation". Also you are making the mistake of assuming because Paul never addressed this issue that he considered lost visitors the same as believers in the congregation. That case just cannot be made. You guys have a problem looking for a place to land.

You are appealing to emotion, not following Scripture.

 

[Revmitchell]

You are appealing to emotion, not following Scripture.

Uh......not sure how you reached that conclusion. I was trying, in a nice way, to say you did not get your position from scripture. I have already laid out my position from scripture. I can add more:

1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became as a Jew, in order to win Jews. To those under the law I became as one under the law (though not being myself under the law) that I might win those under the law.
1Co 9:21 To those outside the law I became as one outside the law (not being outside the law of God but under the law of Christ) that I might win those outside the law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak I became weak, that I might win the weak. I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some.
1Co 9:23 I do it all for the sake of the gospel, that I may share with them in its blessings.

 

[Reformed1689]

A lost person is not "in the congregation". Also you are making the mistake of assuming because Paul never addressed this issue that he considered lost visitors the same as believers in the congregation. That case just cannot be made. You guys have a problem looking for a place to land.

You are assuming first century church looks like American Church. It didn't. There is no indication that there were lost visitors (except false believers) in the churches.

 

[Revmitchell]

You are assuming first century church looks like American Church. It didn't. There is no indication that there were lost visitors (except false believers) in the churches.

Im not assuming anything. Just because there is mo indication is not evidence of your opinion.

 

[Reformed1689]

Im not assuming anything. Just because there is mo indication is not evidence of your opinion.

But it also means there is nothing to support your assertions. We do know that there were times when Jesus closed off outsiders and dealt only with his disciples and followers. Did he turn away sinners? No. Did people living in active sin and not believers stay in his inner circle? Also no. This is the model I advocate for. I am not saying you do not let a sinner in the door. What I am saying is that people who make themselves part of the congregation need to be in right standing. I don't distinguish between members and non-members. That's not something the Bible speaks to. In the Bible, if you are a believer you are a member of the church. Scripture clearly shows principles that those who live in intentional and unrepentant sin are to be removed from the assembly.

 

[Deacon]

We had a drug addicted homosexual visit our church sporadically for a few years.
He would bring a partner with him, quite a few partners over the years.
He was not a distraction but many of us knew his story.
The pastor spoke privately to him, letting him know that there would be times when sermons would deal with his situation, and as a pastor, he would not neglect speaking out.
The congregation not only tolerated him but befriended him.
He often sat among the dependency group crowd.

Over time, the Lord changed his heart; he accepted Christ’s forgiveness and forsook his sin.
One Sunday he gave a strong testimony before the church.
Today he ministers to a wide group of people most of us have no contact with. Last year he married.
He expresses his profound appreciation for the patience and lovingkindness the church body showed him.

Church discipline is for church members: an action my church does not neglect.
In two particular situations the member confessed their sin, dealt with the situation and was welcomed back into the congregation.

Rob

 

[Revmitchell]

But it also means there is nothing to support your assertions. We do know that there were times when Jesus closed off outsiders and dealt only with his disciples and followers. Did he turn away sinners? No. Did people living in active sin and not believers stay in his inner circle? Also no. This is the model I advocate for. I am not saying you do not let a sinner in the door. What I am saying is that people who make themselves part of the congregation need to be in right standing. I don't distinguish between members and non-members. That's not something the Bible speaks to. In the Bible, if you are a believer you are a member of the church. Scripture clearly shows principles that those who live in intentional and unrepentant sin are to be removed from the assembly.

Lost people visiting the church and the assembly are two completely different things. You want people to get right with God before they can attend your church? Wow

 

[Reformed1689]

Lost people visiting the church and the assembly are two completely different things. You want people to get right with God before they can attend your church? Wow

Before they become a regular part of the church? Yes. That is what is required. Remember this is the assembly of YOURSELVES (believers) not just an assembly.

 

[Reynolds]

Lost people visiting the church and the assembly are two completely different things. You want people to get right with God before they can attend your church? Wow

You consider a person visiting up till the time they join?