From another topic (name redacted):
Rather than draw a soon to close topic off track, let us start a fresh topic to examine the implications of the statement made and accusations presented at the character of God.
Are there people that "will" to be saved, but are not?
Has God rejected some that desired to come to Christ?
That is what this statement accuses God of doing.
Does Calvinism teach that "salvation does not depend on men" and "men are unable to will (desire) salvation"?
(Can Calvinists provide verses in support for the person quoted anonymously?)
Does salvation depend on the man that wills (the will of man)? (scripture verses, please?)
Is God obligated to accept all who ask?
Does this "problem" really exist?
Rom 9:16 So then it
does not
depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy. NSAB
What did this person say:
Romans 9:16 says salvation does not depend on the man that wills, but Calvinism says it means salvation does not depend on the man that is unable to will.
Actually there is no one that by his own will can be saved that is the right of God alone. But for any bible believing Christian then the answer is yes they had a will to be saved. Once a person has been convicted by the Holy Spirit that they are a sinner in need of a savoiur then if they, by their God given free will, repent and trust in Christ Jesus for salvation that is an action of the will.
When you read what this person wrote “but Calvinism says it means salvation does not depend on the man that is unable to will.” That is a true statement. Just look at your WCF / LBCF or TULIP. If God decrees all things then is man able to go against what God has decreed? And your TULIP,
Irresistible Grace, if God does not give you the grace to come to Him can you fight it? I think not. Now look at “
Unconditional Election” for the calvinist this means that only those that are chosen by God are able to be saved.
The statement does not accuse God of making the willing man unable, calvinism does that. Note the words “
but Calvinism says it means”. Calvinism has added to scripture what is not there and then accuses others of not understanding scripture.
Atpollard it seems you are building strawmen so you can knock them down. You ask the question “
Are there people that "will" to be saved, but are not?” JW’s, Mormons, Jews, RC’s shall I go on. Many people desire to be saved but they do not reach salvation because they want to do it their way and not the way that God prescribed. Faith in His son.
You also asked “
Does salvation depend on the man that wills (the will of man)?” Well have to qualify that answer 1] Salvation depends on God as only God can save, but 2] it also depends on man as God will only save those that believe. Eph 1:13; Rom 10:9; Rom 10:8-15 But the sad part is the not all will desire to follow Christ Jesus. Rom 10:16
So the question becomes why would man will to be saved? Paul gives us the answer in Rom 10:17 “...hearing by the word of Christ.” God's Holy Spirit accompanies the teaching and preaching of the Word to convict and call sinners to repentance, and salvation. Men are called to believe the gospel that Christ Jesus:
A)
"died for our sins
B)
was buried for our sins
C)
and rose again, the third day for our sins, according to the scriptures."
This is the gospel message and those that accept it will be saved those that reject it or add to or subtract from it will not be saved. So when you ask is God obligated to save all those that ask, then the answer is no.
I hope this brings some clarity to this topic.
