Church Music and Singing

[timdabap]

Is this a dead horse ? wouldn't be a surprise if it were. The board is littered with corpses of dead horses. lol. Anyway, most everybody in a church, and almost every church that exists within this anomaly called "Christendom" claim some sort or measure of affinity to the New Testament church founded by the Savior along the shores of Ceasaria Philippi and empowered on Pentecost. Or, they claim to be the New Testament church.
But I find the following to be not among the doctrines and practices of the New Testament church:

• 1. Universal Atonement
• 2. Judas included in the beneficiaries of the shed blood of Christ
• 3. Tithes
• 4. Sunday Schools
• 5. Seminary education
• 6. Choirs, special numbers, musical instruments.

Let's just focus, for now, on number 6, particularly musical instruments.
Why do you use them if you use them ?
What scripture do you find supports your use of them ?
Keep it civil.

 

[Aaron]

Well I'll be kicked and dragged through a bucket of lard. I don't know if I've ever seen anyone make the #6 argument other than myself.

Musical instruments were shunned by the early Christians to keep the services spiritual and simple. They were not used in the synagogues, as their proper place was seen to be in the Temple in accompaniment of sacrifices.

I believe it best to keep instruments out of the services for the same reasons.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Is this a dead horse ? wouldn't be a surprise if it were. The board is littered with corpses of dead horses. lol. Anyway, most everybody in a church, and almost every church that exists within this anomaly called "Christendom" claim some sort or measure of affinity to the New Testament church founded by the Savior along the shores of Ceasaria Philippi and empowered on Pentecost. Or, they claim to be the New Testament church.
But I find the following to be not among the doctrines and practices of the New Testament church:

• 1. Universal Atonement
• 2. Judas included in the beneficiaries of the shed blood of Christ
• 3. Tithes
• 4. Sunday Schools
• 5. Seminary education
• 6. Choirs, special numbers, musical instruments.

Let's just focus, for now, on number 6, particularly musical instruments.
Why do you use them if you use them ?
What scripture do you find supports your use of them ?
Keep it civil.

I have had several previous threads on or related to this subject. You might want to look at those earlier threads.

Here are links to two of them: What Do You Believe about Instrumental Music?

Does Scripture Teach That God Created All Music?

I wholeheartedly believe in having choirs, special numbers, and musical instruments in corporate worship.

 

[JonC]

Is this a dead horse ? wouldn't be a surprise if it were. The board is littered with corpses of dead horses. lol. Anyway, most everybody in a church, and almost every church that exists within this anomaly called "Christendom" claim some sort or measure of affinity to the New Testament church founded by the Savior along the shores of Ceasaria Philippi and empowered on Pentecost. Or, they claim to be the New Testament church.
But I find the following to be not among the doctrines and practices of the New Testament church:

• 1. Universal Atonement
• 2. Judas included in the beneficiaries of the shed blood of Christ
• 3. Tithes
• 4. Sunday Schools
• 5. Seminary education
• 6. Choirs, special numbers, musical instruments.

Let's just focus, for now, on number 6, particularly musical instruments.
Why do you use them if you use them ?
What scripture do you find supports your use of them ?
Keep it civil.

Everything on this board (except current events) is a dead horse. But that does not mean it is unprofitable to discuss.

David worshiped with cymbals. The Hebrews worshiped with string and wind instruments. Sp much of music is cultural (people expressing themselves). I don't mind instruments.

I don't particularly like most of the music in my church. But it isn't about me.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Everything on this board (except current events) is a dead horse. But that does not mean it is unprofitable to discuss.

David worshiped with cymbals. The Hebrews worshiped with string and wind instruments. Sp much of music is cultural (people expressing themselves). I don't mind instruments.

I don't particularly like most of the music in my church. But it isn't about me.

What a sad reality it is that a believer can feel that he does not "particularly like most of the music in [his] church."

 

[JonC]

What a sad reality it is that a believer can feel that he does not "particularly like most of the music in [his] church."

No, it really isn't. Church is not about our personal preferences. I love what the songs communicate, it just is not the type of music I enjoy.

This does not mean I do not enjoy worshipping through the music. It is just not pleasing to my ears.

Sometimes we have to set aside our wants and preferences for the Body.

 

[tyndale1946]

This might be of interest to some... Way back in the day I decided to go to a singing school and the only songs we sung were spiritual hymns... In four point harmony, we were taught to sing better, using the fa, so, la method and also with not any musical instruments... We sang acapella... That is the same way I lead in church... Acapella... And Aaron I've been saying the same thing on here since I joined... But here is an interesting side note, the people that were there knew by observation, that there were no musical instruments in sight... Some of the people we played the recoding to, said I'm absolutely sure I heard and organ in there?... No just human voices!... Now imagine the angels of God with the redeemed Saints of God praising the Godhead in unison!... I'm... Brother Glen

And Peter is not going to be on the pipe organ, while Paul is tickling the ivories!

 

[JonC]

This might be of interest to some... Way back in the day I decided to go to a singing school and the only songs we sung were spiritual hymns... In four point harmony, we were taught to sing better, using the fa, so, la method and also with not any musical instruments... We sang acapella... That is the same way I lead in church... Acapella... And Aaron I've been saying the same thing on here since I joined... But here is an interesting side note, the people that were there knew by observation, that there were no musical instruments in sight... Some of the people we played the recoding to, said I'm absolutely sure I heard and organ in there?... No just human voices!... Now imagine the angels of God with the redeemed Saints of God praising the Godhead in unison!... I'm... Brother Glen

And Peter is not going to be on the pipe organ, while Paul is tickling the ivories!

Who is on the drums?

 

[Jerome]

Some of the people we played the recoding to, said I'm absolutely sure I heard and organ in there?... No just human voices!

Who is on the drums?

If folks in the hollers can bellow like an organ, surely they could do something like what in urban areas is called 'beatboxing' (vocal percussion).

 

[tyndale1946]

Who is on the drums?

I don't know Jon but Gabriel's on the trumpet!... Oh and I forgot the angels are playing harps... And me?... Well I'm playing the Jew's harp (that's strange I'm not Jewish)... Now if you want to know who's on the drums?... You are going to have to go to the other place!... Brother Glen

 

[timdabap]

Thank you all for keeping this civil...........so......far.................
I love acapella singing...........now.
Especially church acapella singing, and very especially when the congregation can sing in parts and the blending is good.
But if they can't, then simply the voices raised in song to the Lord is heavenly to listen to.
A Primitive Baptist church I was a member of, were composed mostly of old retirees not a small number of whom were septuagenarians or above.
Our voices went in every direction, and tones that would make a songwriter shed copious tears, with someone leading that stood ramrod straight, though sometimes swaying (but not to the music and I suspect more to relieve his feet), one hand holding the hymnal, the other stiff at the side, or sometimes beating to the music that looked more like swatting at a fly.
But nevertheless, we sang to and for the Lord, and each other.
I used to wonder why we didn't use musical instruments.
What Scripture other than that in the New Testament ?
If the New Testament is the Old Testament in fulfillment (right term ?), where is the Old Testament shadow, I thought.
Until somebody pointed me to 2 Chronicles 29 verses 27-30, and I quote it here:

And Hezekiah commanded to offer the burnt offering upon the altar. And when the burnt offering began, the song of the LORD began with the trumpets, and with the instruments ordained by David king of Israel.
And all the congregation worshipped, and the singers sang, and the trumpeters sounded: and all this continued until the burnt offering was finished.
And when they had made an end of offering, the king and all that were present with him bowed themselves, and worshipped.
Moreover Hezekiah the king and the princes commanded the Levites to sing praise unto the LORD with the words of David, and of Asaph the seer.
And they sang praises with gladness, and they bowed their heads and worshipped.

 

[tyndale1946]

Thank you all for keeping this civil...........so......far.................
I love acapella singing...........now.
Especially church acapella singing, and very especially when the congregation can sing in parts and the blending is good.
But if they can't, then simply the voices raised in song to the Lord is heavenly to listen to.
A Primitive Baptist church I was a member of, were composed mostly of old retirees not a small number of whom were septuagenarians or above.
Our voices went in every direction, and tones that would make a songwriter shed copious tears, with someone leading that stood ramrod straight, though sometimes swaying (but not to the music and I suspect more to relieve his feet), one hand holding the hymnal, the other stiff at the side, or sometimes beating to the music that looked more like swatting at a fly.
But nevertheless, we sang to and for the Lord, and each other.
I used to wonder why we didn't use musical instruments.
What Scripture other than that in the New Testament ?
If the New Testament is the Old Testament in fulfillment (right term ?), where is the Old Testament shadow, I thought.
Until somebody pointed me to 2 Chronicles 29 verses 27-30, and I quote it here:

This following poem by Archie Campbell of, for all you old timers of Hee-Haw it's one of my favorites... Brother Glen

The Trouble In The Amen Corner

• 
  It was a stylish congregation: you could see they’d been around,
  And they had the biggest pipe organ of any church in town.
  But over in the amen-corner of that church sat Brother Eyer,
  and he insisted every Sunday on singing in the choir.
  His voice was cracked and broken; age had touched his vocal chords,
  And nearly every Sunday he’d get behind and miss the words.
  Well, the choir got so flustered the church was told in fine
  that Brother Eyer must stop singing or the choir was gonna resign.
  
  So the pastor appointed a committee, I think it was three or four,
  and they got in their big fine car and drove up to Eyer’s door.
  They found the choir’s great trouble sitting there in an old arm-chair,
  The summer’s golden sunbeams lay upon his snow-white hair.
  
  Said one, “We’re here dear Brother, with the vestry’s approbation
  to discuss a little matter that affects the congregation.
  Now, it seems that your voice is interfering with the choir,
  So, if you’ll just lay out, or...Are you listening, Brother Eyer..?”
  
  The old man raised his head, a sign that he did hear;
  and on his furrowed cheek they caught the glitter of a tear.
  His feeble hands pushed back the locks as white as silky snow,
  and he answered the committee in a voice both soft and low:
  
  “I wonder if beyond the tide that’s breaking at my feet,
  in that far-off heavenly temple where my Master and I shall meet:
  Yes, I wonder if, when I try to sing the songs of God up higher
  I wonder if they’ll kick me out of singing in Heaven’s choir?”
  
  A silence filled the little room, the old man bowed his head;
  The committee went on back to town, but Brother Eyer was dead.
  A few church-goers watched the door, but the old man entered not.
  The choir missed him for a while, but he was soon forgot.
  
  Far away his voice is sweet, and he sings his heart’s desires
  Where there are no church committees and no fashionable choirs.
  

• 
  

 

[Salty]

Timdabap

You want to know what Scripture allows for musical instruments.

I would ask - What Scripture prohibits musical instruments?

 

[timdabap]

Timdabap

You want to know what Scripture allows for musical instruments.

I would ask - What Scripture prohibits musical instruments?

I think you missed the point of the Scripture.
The burnt offering (Jesus) was being offered (before the cross), the Old Covenant, the Old Law, the Old Testament, call it what you may, the shorter terminology (for me) is pre-cross.
When Christ proclaimed "it is FINISHED", His Spirit, which He commended to His Father, was the "smoke" of the burnt offering (of the OT) that went up to heaven, and the beginning of the New Testament period.
That His offering was accepted, is the empty tomb.
So, it is not a question of prohibition.
More than a question of singing with joy using only the new heart, the heart of flesh, in a worship setting, in a New Testament church.
The old is past, the new is now.

 

[Salty]

NO - I have not missed the point

You stated - in post # 1 "What scripture do you find supports your use of them ?"

There are many things that churches have or do - - NONE of which are addressed in
Scripture.

Thus my question - "Where does Scripture say we cannon have musical instruments"
Actually as previously mention - instruments have been used.

 

[timdabap]

NO - I have not missed the point

Yes, you did.
The Scripture (singular) cited was 2 Chronicles 29 verse 30.

You stated - in post # 1 "What scripture do you find supports your use of them ?"

Okay, I should have added New Testament before Scripture.
My bad.
So, what New Testament scripture do your church use to justify their use in New Testament church worship.

There are many things that churches have or do - - NONE of which are addressed in
Scripture.

These are not what is being discussed.
Music is.

Thus my question - "Where does Scripture say we cannon have musical instruments"

Where in my OP did I say a church cannot have musical instruments.
In the first New Testament church, as recorded in Scriptures, they did not use musical instruments.
They sang with their voices.
Even the Founder, Jesus Christ, sang with the voice.

Actually as previously mention - instruments have been used.

In the Old Testament, not in the New.

 

[Salty]

Well - I suppose we will have to agree to disagree

Good night

 

[Aaron]

There are many things that churches have or do - - NONE of which are addressed in
Scripture.

If God has expressed no preference, then that which is being vaunted is that which is loved by man. Which man's preference should prevail?

 

[Deacon]

…musical instruments.
Why do you use them if you use them ?
What scripture do you find supports your use of them ?
Keep it civil.

I usually just mouth the words to songs, to better preserve the peace.
but there’s this one woman….
… she could peal the paint off a wall with her voice.
And she loves to sing… LOUD

Bring on the instruments - the louder the better!

I’m hoping there’s a “special place” in heaven for people with a voice like that.

Rob

 

[agedman]

Singing in church too loudly. Results by Stuart Hamblin