Featured The GOD that refuses to save

I think he is justified at the time he believes. There is a work of the Holy Spirit on him before that happens where he is "quickened" or "renewed" and "enabled" to come to Christ. The WCF ch.10 point 2 discusses this and they come short of saying you are "saved" first and then believe. You are correct in that some Calvinists believe you were justified even from eternity past and becoming a Christian is realizing all of this. I do not believe that and it looks to me like that goes beyond the WCF also. That does not mean that you have a natural inclination to come to saving faith on your own and I do believe that the "quickening" or being "born again" is describing the Holy Spirit's monergistic work and in that sense faith is 100% a gift. I have a book of Spurgeon sermons and he says not to get all riled up over which comes first because they are always together.

 

And how is that incompatible with Calvinism? All men do have an equal chance to know God and trust Him, but nobody wants to.

 

We'll just have to disagree on this but I don't see where everyone gets an equal chance to trust in Him. Now maybe they do somehow and we're just privy to it but I don't see how an Aztec growing up watching hearts being cut out of human sacrifices has the same "chance" as someone growing up in a small town with a good Bible believing church down the street.

 

This is not true. The Calvinist recognizes that God said NOBODY seeks after him. All have the option, but none take it on their own.

 

So lets look at the text you quoted:
Joh 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
Joh 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
Joh 6:40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."
Joh 6:41 Therefore the Jews were grumbling about Him, because He said, "I am the bread that came down out of heaven."
Joh 6:42 They were saying, "Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How does He now say, 'I have come down out of heaven'?"
Joh 6:43 Jesus answered and said to them, "Do not grumble among yourselves.
Joh 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 6:45 "It is written in the prophets, 'AND THEY SHALL ALL BE TAUGHT OF GOD.' Everyone who has heard and learned from the Father, comes to Me.
Joh 6:46 "Not that anyone has seen the Father, except the One who is from God; He has seen the Father.
Joh 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.
Joh 6:48 "I am the bread of life.
Joh 6:49 "Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died.
Joh 6:50 "This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.
Joh 6:51 "I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh."
Joh 6:52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, "How can this man give us His flesh to eat?"
Joh 6:53 So Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in yourselves.
Joh 6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.
Joh 6:55 "For My flesh is true food, and My blood is true drink.
Joh 6:56 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him.
Joh 6:57 "As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats Me, he also will live because of Me.
Joh 6:58 "This is the bread which came down out of heaven; not as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live forever."

Yes we know that God draws all people Joh 12:32 and He does this because He desires that all be saved 1Ti 2:3-4. The quoted verses just tell us over and over that we have to believe/trust in Christ Jesus before we are saved.

We can see this stated clearly in
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

The context does not support your idea that it is only those that are drawn that are taught. What the context does show is that even though one is drawn/taught of God that does not mean they will come to God. Salvation is conditional.

 

The context of John 12 is both Jew and Greek. Not all individuals. I know that is an inconvenient truth for you....context...

 

Under your calvinism that is not true. Look at your TULIP. Limited Atonement only those that God chooses for Unconditional Election will get Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. Your own theology precludes this, but you just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

But let suppose that calvinism were true, then God has predetermined most of His own children to resist His truth so as to glorify Himself. Which, if you read the bible, goes against Gods' stated desire.
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

The calvinist idea is that God unchangeably predestined the majority of his own children to reject his own truth for his own glory. This calvinist view of God does not equate with the God that is love, the God that gave His own son so that we could be saved?

Calvinism just has to many holes in that boat for it to float.

 

Wait according to reformed theology God must first regenerate you. If there are those who God does not regenerate then it is not true that all have an equal chance.

Have I misrepresented your position?

 

You seem to have a low view of what God can do. If He desires for that homeless refugee in an Islamic state to be convicted then He can arrange for that to happen and then that child can make their own choice whether to trust in God or not. The same for anyone, why do you want to limit the power of God?

Do you not believe what we see in
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
Rom 1:19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
Rom 1:20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,

I do.

 

But do you not see the problem with your story. God through all the children into the pool and then says I am just going to save some and leave the rest to die. Remember your version of God decrees all things. so I have to agree with Sproul
"What's wrong with you people?"

 

You are but not intentionally. The equal chance is in our unregenerate state. The offer is available to all who will take it. But nobody will. So yes, everyone has an equal chance and everyone equally rejects that chance. So God chose to save some by changing their stance.

 

Ok you can quit using the 1 Tim. 2:4 verse because you a take it out of context and I will never let you get by with that. You realize if God wanted all to be saved, all would be saved. If he doesn't have the power to save them, that makes man more powerful than God. That is not what the Bible teaches. God's will is always accomplished. Or do you believe in a puny God?

 

You do realize that we are talking about spiritual salvation not physical, right. Your own theology speaks against all being able to be saved. Why do you calvinists keep saying that people are trying to save themselves. Do you wish that you could do that for yourselves? I only ask because you are so fixated on it.

 

Yep everyone has that opportunity to hear the Gospel and respond? Does that mean that all will no. But you seem to think that God only has one way for people to come to trust in Him. Why do you limit God? Calvinists keep saying God is all powerful then you turn around and limit Him. Come on calvinists make up your minds.