What must one do to be saved?

[Silverhair]

when God places an individual into Christ spiritually, based on crediting their faith as righteousness.

Sigh...
The above runs contrary to scripture.
Let's read scripture.
Ephesians 2:4-5
But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

Notice what we don't see. Nowhere does it say "based on crediting their faith as righteousness."

It only says "even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved."

Now, Van, you seem to misunderstand salvation and thus only see justification. Justification comes after salvation, therefore the elect are placed into Christ before faith is even given to a Christians so that the faith God gives them might be their means of justification.

Now, I dare you to address the text and me directly rather than drift into third person response.

Why do you always ignore this text
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Seems quite clear to me. hear the gospel, believe the gospel God saves. Is that to hard for you to accept as it does not fit with of theological view?

 

[Silverhair]

First, Van, I notice you don't even touch Ephesians 2:4-5. Why is that???

Second, let's look at 2 Thesalonians 2:11-15

Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. But we ought always to give thanks to God for you, brothers beloved by the Lord, because God chose you as the firstfruits to be saved, through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth. To this he called you through our gospel, so that you may obtain the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

Huh? God chose us to be saved. He set us apart by the Holy Spirit and belief (faith) in the truth. Van, this verse shows you are wrong. It confirms Ephesians 2:4-5, which tells us...But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—

God saved us by grace alone, while we were still dead, as firstfruits. He set us apart by the Holy Spirit and by faith in Christ.

Where did that faith come from? It came as a gift from God.
Ephesians 2:8-9 provides this truth.
For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Van, you have a false doctrine. It's glaring at you and many people have pointed it out, time and again. You will not agree with any of us. You just keep pushing your false doctrine. It's stuck in your head like a spike that has lodged itself in the brain of an accident victim. Since scripture doesn't seem to be enough for you, I leave you to your false doctrine.

Lets look at
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Question, were you not dead in your sins before you trusted in God? I was. But what do you know, that does not mean that you are dead does it. We were spiritually dead as in did not know God. But that does not stop a person from hearing and understanding the gospel.

Paul, just a few verses earlier told us how we could come to salvation
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Also notice that Paul makes it clear that anyone can be saved
Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
And then he states again how this can happen
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

They call on the LORD because they heard the gospel message from a preacher {or perhaps even you}.

 

[Silverhair]

Brother, that is a gracious attitude toward a fellow Christian who is intentionally suppressing the truth. Not in "unrighteousness" as unregenerate to do truth (Rom 1), but more of a hard-headedness and not a hard-heartedness.
Best to walk away from discussions with one who is set on their course, and follow Mr. T's advice.

The reason that those of us that are non-calvinists continue to discuss these important topics with our fellow Christian who is intentionally suppressing the truth is because we are lead by the Holy Spirit to do so. It is my hope that through these dealing that some if not all calvinists will come to see the error in their understanding of scripture.
While I agree that with the calvinist it seems to be more of a hard-headedness and not a hard-heartedness, I can not agree that it is best to walk away.
I will always trust in the Holy Spirit that He can soften the hardest heart bringing light into it.

 

[timdabap]

'What Must One Do To Be Saved" ?

Saved from what ? If the answer is from God. The answer is nothing. He saves you from Himself, He provided the blood that washed away all your sins (Rev. 5:9),He provided the Lamb for the burnt offering (Genesis 22:8), which was Himself becoming His own Son (John 1:1) in whom He resided (Col.2:9) to live the perfect life for you before the Father (Romans 5:8-10), which the first man could not do.
Now, if it is being saved from the pricking of conscience, and from the timely consequences of sin, both past, present, or future, as was the question of the crowd to Peter, or by the jailor, well, then, believe in/on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved,

 

[AustinC]

Lets look at
Eph 2:4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
Eph 2:5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),

Question, were you not dead in your sins before you trusted in God? I was. But what do you know, that does not mean that you are dead does it. We were spiritually dead as in did not know God. But that does not stop a person from hearing and understanding the gospel.

Paul, just a few verses earlier told us how we could come to salvation
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Also notice that Paul makes it clear that anyone can be saved
Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
And then he states again how this can happen
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

They call on the LORD because they heard the gospel message from a preacher {or perhaps even you}.

We've addressed this and you basically ignore Ephesians 1:3-4 and you ignore Romans 8 as well as Romans 9.

I will use this truth from scripture.
The people of Israel were held in slavery, under the bondage of Egypt. They could not free themselves, no matter how hard they tried. They could not freely pick someone else to serve. They had to serve Egypt.

But God, chose Moses and sent him to set Israel free.

But, Israel wasn't free. Israel was held in a Covenant bondage to God as His chosen people. God set the covenant and the people were held under the Covenant.

This history was given to us as a foreshadowing of humanity. The Bible tells us that humans are all held in slavery to sin. Not one human being is free from this bondage. They cannot, by any means, choose a different slave holder. They are held in bondage to sin. The best they can do is try to make life as happy for themselves as they can. But, they can never be free from their bondage.

God must come and choose to Redeem them. Set them free from their bondage to sin, but in so doing a New Covenant is established so that the newly redeemed person is now held in covenant bondage to their Redeemer who also makes them heirs in His Kingdom. What they are not is they are not free. They are not choice makers in this issue. The cause of their redemption is Jesus who pays the price for them and makes them alive with himself.

Silverhair, throughout the entire Bible, what you claim as the means of salvation is never expressed by God that way. You keep propping yourself up as the one who chose God, while God keeps telling you that He chose you. Some day you will stand before God and have to explain to him why you gloried in your self and didn't give Him the proper glory due His name.

 

[Silverhair]

We've addressed this and you basically ignore Ephesians 1:3-4 and you ignore Romans 8 as well as Romans 9.

I will use this truth from scripture.
The people of Israel were held in slavery, under the bondage of Egypt. They could not free themselves, no matter how hard they tried. They could not freely pick someone else to serve. They had to serve Egypt.

But God, chose Moses and sent him to set Israel free.

But, Israel wasn't free. Israel was held in a Covenant bondage to God as His chosen people. God set the covenant and the people were held under the Covenant.

This history was given to us as a foreshadowing of humanity. The Bible tells us that humans are all held in slavery to sin. Not one human being is free from this bondage. They cannot, by any means, choose a different slave holder. They are held in bondage to sin. The best they can do is try to make life as happy for themselves as they can. But, they can never be free from their bondage.

God must come and choose to Redeem them. Set them free from their bondage to sin, but in so doing a New Covenant is established so that the newly redeemed person is now held in covenant bondage to their Redeemer who also makes them heirs in His Kingdom. What they are not is they are not free. They are not choice makers in this issue. The cause of their redemption is Jesus who pays the price for them and makes them alive with himself.

Silverhair, throughout the entire Bible, what you claim as the means of salvation is never expressed by God that way. You keep propping yourself up as the one who chose God, while God keeps telling you that He chose you. Some day you will stand before God and have to explain to him why you gloried in your self and didn't give Him the proper glory due His name.

If you refuse to see the truth in scripture then only the Holy Spirit can help you. God saves those that believe and He has set that condition clearly in the bible. You have chosen to say that you have to be saved before you can believe. That is not in the bible.

Someday you may learn how to trust in what God has said in His word but I am doubtful that you would ever admit it on this board.

 

[Dr. Bob]

You have chosen to say that you have to be saved before you can believe. That is not in the bible.

Simple meanings of word escape you, brother. Nobody says that. Those who believe in a sovereign God in control say you must be regenerated by the holy Spirit of God, changed spiritually in nature, before you can spiritually believe (or seek God, or do a single good thing in God's sight, etc).

So, since grasping meaning is mental challenge, I will make a clear statement. You repeat this LIE again and you will find the BB has rules about lying. And they carry consequences. DO NOT LIE AGAIN.

 

[Silverhair]

Simple meanings of word escape you, brother. Nobody says that. Those who believe in a sovereign God in control say you must be regenerated by the holy Spirit of God, changed spiritually in nature, before you can spiritually believe (or seek God, or do a single good thing in God's sight, etc).

So, since grasping meaning is mental challenge, I will make a clear statement. You repeat this LIE again and you will find the BB has rules about lying. And they carry consequences. DO NOT LIE AGAIN.

Do you have to resort to threats and insults. That's low. This seems to be the one of the first tools of those that feel threatened.

I have used your TULIP and the WCF/LBCF to show what the calvinist theology holds and now you are denying it. When I post a quote from any of them, all I get is no not true. Really do you think that only calvinists can read?

What is the lie that I have put forward. If your theology does not agree with the bible then tell me who is not speaking the truth?

If the bible says you are saved through faith or by faith how is what I say a lie.
What does Eph 1:13 say
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

What do you think is the gift of God? The bible is clear.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

It is a sad day when a minister has to resort to threats. Does the truth scare you?
If you ban me from this board that says much more about you than it does me.

 

[Silverhair]

A man is not saved because he believes in Christ, he believes in Christ because he is saved. [URL='https://www.azquotes.com/author/24120-Loraine_Boettner']Loraine Boettner[/URL]

Your words Dr. Bob "Nobody says that." This quote is from a calvinist would you not agree.

 

[Iconoclast]

Why do you always ignore this text
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Seems quite clear to me. hear the gospel, believe the gospel God saves. Is that to hard for you to accept as it does not fit with of theological view?

Some people start at verse3...then read the other verses to vs.14...because it is one sentence in the greek.

 

[Guido]

Simple meanings of word escape you, brother. Nobody says that. Those who believe in a sovereign God in control say you must be regenerated by the holy Spirit of God, changed spiritually in nature, before you can spiritually believe (or seek God, or do a single good thing in God's sight, etc).

So, since grasping meaning is mental challenge, I will make a clear statement. You repeat this LIE again and you will find the BB has rules about lying. And they carry consequences. DO NOT LIE AGAIN.

Simple meaning of whose words? The words of Calvinists, or the words of God.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: " John 1:12

 

[Silverhair]

Some people start at verse3...then read the other verses to vs.14...because it is one sentence in the greek.

I know that, I have made the same comment. But that does not alter what the verse says does it. You hear the gospel, you believe the gospel and as a result God saves you.

We can see this same thing in Galatians where we are told that it is not our works that justify us but our faith.
Gal_2:16 nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law but through faith in Christ Jesus, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified.

 

[Van]

I know that, I have made the same comment. But that does not alter what the verse says does it. You hear the gospel, you believe the gospel and as a result God saves you.

Nice Job Silverhair, you have been posting truth. I see one member of forum leadership is now openly expressing his animosity toward me.

And how do I suppress the truth according to Calvinists?

1) I say choosing the older to serve the younger is a conditional election. Their response, no it is not.

2) I say God determining those to be saved based on if He credits their faith as righteousness is monergistic. They say no it is not.

3) I say Paul speaking to new Christians as men of flesh, using spiritual milk, shows men of flesh (unregenerates) can understand and respond to the gospel. They say, no it does not.

4) I say Matthew 23:13 shows people who are entering the kingdom and therefore who are seeking God. They say no it does not.

5) Ephesians 2:5 supports that God saves sinners, and therefore supports the biblical view I present.

Only one side, the Calvinist side, is suppressing truth as shown.

 

[AustinC]

Simple meaning of whose words? The words of Calvinists, or the words of God.

"But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: " John 1:12

Let's look at the bigger context.

In this passage, John is referring back to the tabernacle and stating that Jesus is the actual representation of the lampstand, which gives light. The lampstand gave light to those in the tabernacle. Jesus gives light to all who believe, but not to the entire universal world. The rest of the world are in darkness, outside the walls of the tabernacle, unable to see the glory of God.

Notice the statement about being reborn in verse 13. John 3 gives us more information about being born again. We realize that just as we had no part in our physical conception, so our spiritual conception in Christ is not of our doing. Our belief happens because of saving grace, given to us by God, not coming from our sinful selves.

John 1:4-13
The Word gave life to everything that was created, and his life brought light to everyone. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness can never extinguish it. God sent a man, John the Baptist, to tell about the light so that everyone might believe because of his testimony. John himself was not the light; he was simply a witness to tell about the light. The one who is the true light, who gives light to everyone, was coming into the world. He came into the very world he created, but the world didn’t recognize him. He came to his own people, and even they rejected him. But to all who believed him and accepted him, he gave the right to become children of God. They are reborn—not with a physical birth resulting from human passion or plan, but a birth that comes from God.

 

[JesusFan]

Nice Job Silverhair, you have been posting truth. I see one member of forum leadership is now openly expressing his animosity toward me.

And how do I suppress the truth according to Calvinists?

1) I say choosing the older to serve the younger is a conditional election. Their response, no it is not.
Unconditional chose by God!
2) I say God determining those to be saved based on if He credits their faith as righteousness is monergistic. They say no it is not.

How can us co assisting Him to save us as by your theology be Monergistic?

3) I say Paul speaking to new Christians as men of flesh, using spiritual milk, shows men of flesh (unregenerates) can understand and respond to the gospel. They say, no it does not.
Paul stated plainly that unsaved person reject the scriptures
4) I say Matthew 23:13 shows people who are entering the kingdom and therefore who are seeking God. They say no it does not.
not referring to persons desiring to getting saved being shut out
5) Ephesians 2:5 supports that God saves sinners, and therefore supports the biblical view I present.
Must quote Ephesians 2:-10
Only one side, the Calvinist side, is suppressing truth as shown.

Only in the mind of Van!

 

[Van]

Only in the mind of Van!

Yet another insult with no on topic content. This all they have, endless obfuscation to suppress truth.

 

[JesusFan]

Yet another insult with no on topic content. This all they have, endless obfuscation to suppress truth.

read my notes on your comments!

 

[Van]

read my notes on your comments!

And how do I suppress the truth according to Calvinists?

1) I say choosing the older to serve the younger is a conditional election. Their response, no it is not.

2) I say God determining those to be saved based on if He credits their faith as righteousness is monergistic. They say no it is not.

3) I say Paul speaking to new Christians as men of flesh, using spiritual milk, shows men of flesh (unregenerates) can understand and respond to the gospel. They say, no it does not.

4) I say Matthew 23:13 shows people who are entering the kingdom and therefore who are seeking God. They say no it does not.

5) Ephesians 2:5 supports that God saves sinners, and therefore supports the biblical view I present.

Only one side, the Calvinist side, is suppressing truth as shown.

 

[JesusFan]

And how do I suppress the truth according to Calvinists?

1) I say choosing the older to serve the younger is a conditional election. Their response, no it is not.

2) I say God determining those to be saved based on if He credits their faith as righteousness is monergistic. They say no it is not.

3) I say Paul speaking to new Christians as men of flesh, using spiritual milk, shows men of flesh (unregenerates) can understand and respond to the gospel. They say, no it does not.

4) I say Matthew 23:13 shows people who are entering the kingdom and therefore who are seeking God. They say no it does not.

5) Ephesians 2:5 supports that God saves sinners, and therefore supports the biblical view I present.

Only one side, the Calvinist side, is suppressing truth as shown.

1 God election is unconditional, based His will period
2 How can God grant us credit for the faith that he gave to us as a free gift?
3 Paul never wrote that any unsaved person understands and receives the things of the scriptures unaided
4 None seeking to get saved are denied, as they are the sheep of the Lord Jesus
5 must quote Ephesian 2:8-10

 

[Van]

1 God election is unconditional, based His will period
2 How can God grant us credit for the faith that he gave to us as a free gift?
3 Paul never wrote that any unsaved person understands and receives the things of the scriptures unaided
4 None seeking to get saved are denied, as they are the sheep of the Lord Jesus
5 must quote Ephesian 2:8-10

Now who is suppressing the truth, choosing the older to serve the younger is said to be unconditional. Utter nonsense.
Does God grant us credit for faith. Yes. Does this post suppress that truth? Yes
Did Paul speak to new Christs as to men of flesh? Yes.
Scripture tells of people seeking to be saved that are not saved, see the second and third soils of Matthew 13.
Ephesians 2:5 supports the biblical view I present.