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Featured Calvinism is Internally Inconsistent

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Guido, Mar 24, 2022.

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  1. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    If we accept a Calvinistic interpretation of scripture, then we accept an internally inconsistent interpretation of scripture. And an internally inconsistent interpretation of scripture is not the meaning of the Word of God; therefore it is a perversion of the Word of God.

    I now challenge Calvinists to demonstrate that their interpretation is internally consistent, and ask non-Calvinists to show that the Calvinistic interpretation is internally inconsistent. If Calvinists cannot demonstrate that their interpretation is free from contradictions, then cannot demonstrate that what they are deriving from the Word of God is the meaning of the Word of God.

    First, Calvinists say that God hardens people's hearts. Why does He harden their hearts if they have no capacity to believe in him of their own free will? For what purpose is this hardening of the heart? Is it to condemn them? With whom is he bearing patiently? Are these vessels fitted to destruction those whom he hardened? Then how is he bearing with them patiently?

    Did God not reject from before the foundation of the world those whom he did not foreknow, according to Calvinists, if, as they say, the cause for their sin is his withdrawl of his presence from them? Is not God the first to act, rejecting them? They did not reject God; he rejected them. At least non-Calvinists believe that God wants peace with those from whom he withdrew his presence, who were his enemies because of their own free will.

    Desires and free will are two different things. First, acting according to your desires is a decision. If, I desire to eat a cheeseburger, I can eat pizza instead. Why, because I have multiple desires, or reasons, between which I can choose. Ultimately, it's my own choice, not the power of my desires. No one has any excuse for acting in accordance with their desires, because they can in fact, choose to respond in faith to Christ, since he draws all men to himself. How can God draw all men to himself, and yet draw only the "elect"?

    Sorry for my poor prose style and lack of systematic setting forth of argument and information. I will be working on that.
     
    #1 Guido, Mar 24, 2022
  2. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    What scripture am I inconsistent with, Guido?
     
    #2 AustinC, Mar 24, 2022
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  3. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Simply put, Reformed/Calvinistic thology on salvation is UNBIBLICAL!
     
    #3 SavedByGrace, Mar 25, 2022
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  4. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    lol
     
    #4 Mikey, Mar 25, 2022
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  5. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism is Biblical Theology

    plain and simple
     
    #5 Marooncat79, Mar 25, 2022
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  6. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Roman’s 8:29-30
     
    #6 Marooncat79, Mar 25, 2022
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  7. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    :Roflmao:Roflmao:Roflmao
     
    #7 SavedByGrace, Mar 25, 2022
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  8. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    John 3:16-18 DESTROYS Calvinism on salvation! Plain and Simple!
     
    #8 SavedByGrace, Mar 25, 2022
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  9. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    lol
     
    #9 Mikey, Mar 25, 2022
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  10. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    LOL because as per usual, the "reformed" cannot answer from the Bible, where even John Calvin DISAGREES with your theology! that says something! :rolleyes:
     
    #10 SavedByGrace, Mar 25, 2022
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  11. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Not even a little bit.
     
    #11 Reformed1689, Mar 25, 2022
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  12. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    And where in this post have you actually answered from the Bible aside from making a frivolous claim that John 3:16-18 somehow destroys Calvinism, which it doesn't?

    Let's look at the passage, we already know your crazed interpretation that world in 16 must mean that Christ died for every individual even though it doesn't say anything about who Christ died for. Part of the world, according to John 3:18, was condemned ALREADY. So are you saying Jesus wasted his blood by dying for people who were condemned already? That literally makes no sense, nor is it what Scripture teaches. What does Scripture actually teach? It teaches that Jesus laid down his life for the sheep, not everyone. Those are Jesus' words, not mine, not John Calvin's, Jesus'. So you need to do better and study more and come up with some better arguments because yours are not founded in Scripture.
     
    #12 Reformed1689, Mar 25, 2022
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  13. Mikey

    Mikey Active Member

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    LOL:Roflmao
     
    #13 Mikey, Mar 25, 2022
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  14. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    lol we don't answer from the Bible, I don't think @SavedByGrace knows what the Bible is based on that statement.
     
    #14 Reformed1689, Mar 25, 2022
  15. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    I do not see Calvinism as internally inconsistent. It is one of the most concise Chrustian philosophies out there.

    As far as God "hardening hearts", this is typically presented as God not calling in an effectual manner (God passing over the reprobate). Like with Pharoah, God hardened his heart not to accept what he witnessed (dropped him of revelation).

    The problem with Calvinism and God being the first to act depends on the Calvinist. Some do believe God decreed to bypass some people before Creation. Others view God as choosing out of fallen man.


    The issue is not that Calvinism is inconsistent internally but that Calvinism is inconsistent with Scripture.
     
    #15 JonC, Mar 25, 2022
  16. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    @Guido, I am waiting for an answer.

    With what scripture am I inconsistent?
     
    #16 AustinC, Mar 25, 2022
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  17. JesusFan

    JesusFan Well-Known Member

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    Much less so then non Calvinist theology though!
     
    #17 JesusFan, Mar 25, 2022
  18. Marooncat79

    Marooncat79 Well-Known Member
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    Whosoever is not in John 3:16

    john 3:16 is an affirmation that those who are believing have eternal life and are not condemned
     
    #18 Marooncat79, Mar 25, 2022
  19. SavedByGrace

    SavedByGrace Well-Known Member

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    Do you deny that "WORLD" here is the entire human race? And that out of this race, those who believe in Jesus will be saved, and those who reject Jesus will be damned?
     
    #19 SavedByGrace, Mar 25, 2022
  20. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    I am sorry but I disagree vehemently. Recall God ordains whatsoever comes to pass but is not the author of sin.

    This is an "internally inconsistent" statement from Calvinism's Confession. What does "ordain" mean? To predestine the occurrence. So God predestines our each and every sin, yet is not the author (cause) of our sin.

    Hardening does not equate with "passing over." Hardening refers to rendering a person unable to grasp, understand or respond affirmatively to spiritual things. (See soil #1 of Matthew 13) In Romans 11, unbelieving Jews were hardened to facilitate the spread of the Gospel to Gentiles. If the Jews had been already unable to respond, no "hardening" would have been needed. So the concept that original sin rendered humanity unable to seek God and put their faith in Christ, is internally inconsistent with scripture.

    There is no problem with the view God is the first to act in the redemption plan of God.
     
    #20 Van, Mar 25, 2022
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