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Featured Calvinism is Internally Inconsistent

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Guido, Mar 24, 2022.

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  1. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    The problem with these Calvinistic points, at least most of them, if now all of them, is that there is no scriptural basis for them. The word all in the Greek literally means all and there is no reason to believe it is being used in a figurative sense.

    Why do you think it is the will of God that only some whom he created in his own image be saved? And is it true that Satan hates all of humanity because God loves them, or that he hates only those whom God allegedly chose to save? Why does Satan work so hard to deceive the world, if he knows that, those whom God elected to save, will be saved, and the rest are already eternally lost with him? Even if he doesn't know who the elect are, he certainly must know he is wasting his time, because salvation is certain for the elect, because condemnation is certain for the non-elect.

    So, who does he deceive in Revelation, if not the elect according to your Calvinistic philosophy. For it says in Revelation that he deceives the "whole world", and, according to Calvinism, world simply means the elect. Why does Paul care that his gospel was proclaimed throughout the whole world, if he means to say it doesn't matter anyway, because whoever God will save he will save, and whoever he will not save he will condemn?
     
    #61 Guido, Mar 26, 2022
  2. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    1. Who said anything about a figurative sense?
    2. If it was the will of God to save all, why are not all saved?
    3. What makes you think that Satan himself is not also deceived? Ever considered that?
    4. No, Calvinism does not say that world simply means elect, that is nonsense and nobody here has argued that, where are you getting that from?
     
    #62 Reformed1689, Mar 26, 2022
  3. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I am waiting for you to show me exactly where I am biblically inconsistent, Guido. I have asked you for this twice before, but you have not responded.
    As to your claim that there is no scriptural basis for my belief, please show my personal belief and why I have no scriptural basis for such belief.

    As to why God doesn't damn us all for our wicked and wretched rebellion, only God knows.
    As to why Satan works so hard to deceive the world...Satan is not God. He doesn't know whom God is Redeeming, therefore he keeps trying to keep everyone bound in sin. Beyond that, you must realize that Satan is delusional. Look at Vladimir Putin and magnify that delusion exponentially.
    As to why Paul desired to share the gospel to the world...Paul took the command of Jesus to go to the entire world seriously. This should be the response of us all. God knows whom he has predestined to salvation and God expects us to go and preach the gospel.
     
    #63 AustinC, Mar 26, 2022
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    The Bible says that God desires everyone to be saved. Perpetually shunning to believe in Christ is the reason that most are eternally condemned.
     
    #64 Guido, Mar 26, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
  5. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    We have already dealt with this. If it was God's will that all would be saved, all would be saved. So either God cannot accomplish His own will or you have an interpretation problem.
     
    #65 Reformed1689, Mar 26, 2022
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  6. Guido

    Guido Active Member

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    God has two wills: his perfect will, and his permissive will.
     
    #66 Guido, Mar 26, 2022
  7. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, welcome to Calvinism. Now, again, if it was God's will for everyone to be saved, why does he not save everyone?
     
    #67 Reformed1689, Mar 26, 2022
  8. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    #68 Van, Mar 26, 2022
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  9. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    The rule is to address the topic rather than belittle the poster.
    Questions like "Are you sane?" demonstrate a change the subject effort rather than addressing the inherent inconsistencies throughout the false doctrines of Calvinism.

    Christ died as a ransom for all. Calvinism says the verse does not mean what it says.

    God chooses individuals for salvation through faith in the truth, thus a conditional election. Calvinism says the verse does not mean what it says.

    Verse after verse teach of the lost seeking God. Calvinism says no lost person ever seeks God.

    The list folks is long.
     
    #69 Van, Mar 26, 2022
  10. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    God's will is for everyone to be saved according to His redemption plan, which is not to compel belief. Calvinism claims God's plan is to compel belief, which is false doctrine.
     
    #70 Van, Mar 26, 2022
  11. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism claims God predestines what so ever comes to pass, thus Calvinism view is God predestined the Fall. Just another of Calvinism's false doctrines...

    No need for a Gnostic Knowledge redefinition of the meaning of ordain, just open your dictionaries folks.
     
    #71 Van, Mar 26, 2022
  12. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    So you can't. Go figure.

    The reason we cannot use Scripture to explain the difference between "high Calvinism" and "general Calvinism" is the difference between the philosophies is not Scripture.

    Both types of Calvinism believe the same Scripture. They often even use the same translations. The difference is minor changes in the philosophies.
     
    #72 JonC, Mar 26, 2022
  13. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Calvinism claims nothing happens by chance, as everything (whatsoever comes to pass) is ordained by God. However God's word says things happen by chance, thus Calvinism is not based on scriptural understanding.
     
    #73 Van, Mar 26, 2022
  14. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    I want to see what passage/verse you conjure up as your prooftext for God saying things happen by pure chance.
     
    #74 AustinC, Mar 26, 2022
  15. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    John, the reason you can't is because, just like Jonnyism, it's a fictional, made up, concept by men who like to fight boogeymen not scripture.
     
    #75 AustinC, Mar 26, 2022
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  16. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Interesting take. So you disagree that there are types of Calvinism.

    Then let's just put you in as a traditional Cakvinist and assume you believe in infant baptism, salvation of infants based on a parent's covenant relationship, the union of Chirch and State, and supralapsarianism.

    What you may not know is that there are Baptists who also hold to what they call "Calvinism".
     
    #76 JonC, Mar 26, 2022
  17. Reformed1689

    Reformed1689 Well-Known Member

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    I got news for you, saying you did not post about Calvinism IS addressing the topic.
     
    #77 Reformed1689, Mar 26, 2022
  18. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Asked and answered.

    Did I say pure chance? Nope - note folks they cannot present the truth in any post.

    Does Calvinism claim nothing happens by change? Do they have a "prooftext" for the claim in light of all the verses that indicate otherwise? Wait and see...
     
    #78 Van, Mar 26, 2022
  19. Van

    Van Well-Known Member
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    Saying I have news for you is a belittlement, which is all you have, false charges and insults.

    Did you say "ordain" does not mean "predestine?" Yes - did you admit that was yet another false claim? Nope
     
    #79 Van, Mar 26, 2022
  20. AustinC

    AustinC Well-Known Member

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    Okay, let's remove pure and try this again.

    I want to see what passage/verse you conjure up as your prooftext for God saying things happen by chance.
     
    #80 AustinC, Mar 26, 2022
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