VESSELS OF WRATH

[agedman]

the Bible is NOT only Paul! I am quoting Peter as well, where it is very clear that 2 Peter 3:9 includes the entire human race!

Typically speaking, it is true that all views have weaknesses that need free open debate.

The reformers were not perfect. In this matter, I do side with some of the reformed presentation.

Peter and Paul statements as to the patience (long suffering) and reasons the Lord God of all does not yet stop time is also recorded in John's Revelation when it is shown that those under the alter call out the same cry as related in this thread - How Long????

The response is "until those who are going to join you, join you." (my paraphrased version)

I do not reject all things reformed merely because they are reformed, but sift all through the Scriptures. I look for valid balance.

To some of those who are reformed on the BB I am compromised.

To some of those not reformed on the BB I am a Calvinist.

But what I actually desire is that all know my Savior, rely on His Word as the ultimate truth, and recognize that all views are of lesser value then His Word.

His word is both the lamp and light, not a view.

I desire to mirror that light that others are also able to see in the dark.

 

[Reformed1689]

the Bible is NOT only Paul! I am quoting Peter as well, where it is very clear that 2 Peter 3:9 includes the entire human race!

Only if you ignore basic grammar.

 

[agedman]

Only if you ignore basic grammar.

I wonder if the "general appeal" to all in comparison to the "specific drawing" (my term) by the work of the Word and Holy Spirit is causing some confusion.

Does Peter not include that in the "general appeal" there will be those, not yet redeemed will be drawn to believe.

That in context, the God, is still making specific drawing demands until His house is full?

When it is full, the gate will be shut.

Therefore, the delay of the coming of Christ is that the assembly is not yet complete, there are others that must be allowed to come in to the rest.

 

[Reformed1689]

I wonder if the "general appeal" to all in comparison to the "specific drawing" (my term) by the work of the Word and Holy Spirit is causing some confusion.

Does Peter not include that in the "general appeal" there will be those, not yet redeemed will be drawn to believe.

That in context, the God, is still making specific drawing demands until His house is full?

When it is full, the gate will be shut.

Therefore, the delay of the coming of Christ is that the assembly is not yet complete, there are others that must be allowed to come in to the rest.

Right, the elect who have not yet been converted.

 

[kyredneck]

Does Peter not include that in the "general appeal" there will be those, not yet redeemed will be drawn to believe.

Right, the elect who have not yet been converted.

What in the context of 2 Peter 3 leads you to believe 'perish' means going to hell?

 

[SavedByGrace]

I wonder if the "general appeal" to all in comparison to the "specific drawing" (my term) by the work of the Word and Holy Spirit is causing some confusion.

Does Peter not include that in the "general appeal" there will be those, not yet redeemed will be drawn to believe.

That in context, the God, is still making specific drawing demands until His house is full?

When it is full, the gate will be shut.

Therefore, the delay of the coming of Christ is that the assembly is not yet complete, there are others that must be allowed to come in to the rest.

Why would Peter say that God is not willing that none of the elect should perish? This is a pointless statement because the elect cannot perish. Nor would God be longsuffering towards the elect as if they were not willing to go to the Lord, and He has to compel them to.

Remove the limitation of the elect and make it a universal desire of God, and there is no difficulty

 

[SavedByGrace]

What in the context of 2 Peter 3 leads you to believe 'perish' means going to hell?

Where in the Bible does perish mean going to heaven?

 

[percho]

? For how long does the Potter have power over the clay, the vessels of mercy and the vessels of wrath?

When God, the potter, told the vessels of wrath, the house of Israel, you are not my people and or you are not beloved, where was he sending them?

Can GOD raise them from the dead, "literally," and say to them, I sent my Son, you are now my beloved, vessels of mercy?


In reality most on here actually believe, we save ourselves, we birth ourselves of the Spirit, we choose of ourselves to believe, we repent of ourselves and save ourselves.

IMHO

 

[SavedByGrace]

In reality most on here actually believe, we save ourselves, we birth ourselves of the Spirit, we choose of ourselves to believe, we repent of ourselves and save ourselves

maybe you do, but I know that I don't!

 

[Iconoclast]

yet more misuse of what the Bible actually says! Typical of the Calvinist's response when they know the Bible is against their NONSENSE!

Kyred posted the truth...there is no other way to see it and He is not a Calvinist....lol He is a close relative however.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Kyred posted the truth...there is no other way to see it and He is not a Calvinist....lol He is a close relative however.

the problem with "Reformed" theology when it comes to the salvation of sinners, that they have removed mans responsibility of their sins towards the Holy and Just God of the Bible, and try and make the salvation of the "elect" automatic. This is because the FREE WILL that God has given every human being, has been destroyed, by this fatalistic theology. God, is very concerned in the fallen person, and seriously desires that the greatest sinner would repent and believe, and get themselves saved, from eternal punishment.

 

[kyredneck]

This is a pointless statement because the elect cannot perish.

Oh, but they can, and have. I've no doubt there were 'elect' that perished in the flood of Noah, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, wandering in the wilderness, the sieges of Jerusalem by the Babylonians and Romans, etc., thus the call to flee, escape, to get out while you still can:

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:
5 for her sins have reached even unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Rev 18

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.
21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.
22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

God was long-suffering for the sake of the wheat, not the tares.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pet 3:9

Peter was the apostle to the Jews and the 'longsuffering to you-ward' is the forty years God gave the Jews to repent and avoid 'the wrath to come' upon that generation and bringing the curses/plagues of Lev 26/Dt 28 down upon their progeny. 'I gave her time that she should repent; and she willeth not to repent' Re 2:21.

 

[kyredneck]

Where in the Bible does perish mean going to heaven?

...what a dumb question....

 

[SavedByGrace]

Oh, but they can, and have. I've no doubt there were 'elect' that perished in the flood of Noah, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the sieges of Jerusalem by the Babylonians and Romans, etc., thus the call to flee, escape, to get out while you still can:

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come forth, my people, out of her, that ye have no fellowship with her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues:
5 for her sins have reached even unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities. Rev 18

40 And with many other words he testified, and exhorted them, saying, Save yourselves from this crooked generation. Acts 2

20 But when ye see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that her desolation is at hand.
21 Then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains; and let them that are in the midst of her depart out; and let not them that are in the country enter therein.
22 For these are days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lu 21

God was long-suffering for the sake of the wheat, not the tares.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pet 3:9

Peter was the apostle to the Jews and the 'longsuffering to you-ward' is the forty years God gave the Jews to repent and avoid 'the wrath to come' upon that generation and bringing the curses/plagues of Lev 26/Dt 28 down upon their progeny. 'I gave her time that she should repent; and she willeth not to repent' Re 2:21.

perish=eternal punishment

 

[SavedByGrace]

...what a dumb question....

you asked one and got one!

 

[kyredneck]

perish=eternal punishment

Not always...actually, not even most of the time. But, hell-mongers see hell on every page of scripture. Hell, hell, hell. Hell on the brain.

 

[kyredneck]

you asked one and got one!

How old are you, 15?

 

[SavedByGrace]

But, hell-mongers see hell on every page of scripture. Hell, hell, hell. Hell on the brain.

yeah, like the deluded "elect", who suppose that they are better than the rest, who have zero chance to go to heaven, and that God somehow owes them!

 

[SavedByGrace]

How old are you, 15?

well, if you open your eyes and READ the context in 2 Peter 3, you might SEE that "perish" in verse 9 is ETERNAL PUNISHMENT. Just TWO verses earlier Peter writes, "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.". Can you see that this is HELL?

 

[kyredneck]

well, if you open your eyes and READ the context in 2 Peter 3, you might SEE that "perish" in verse 9 is ETERNAL PUNISHMENT. Just TWO verses earlier Peter writes, "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.". Can you see that this is HELL?

No.