Justification

[KenH]

“Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans‬ ‭3:20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

‘ The grand scheme of salvation, as revealed in God's holy word, is so arranged, settled, and determined, that it brings all the glory to God; but cursed pride, which cast apostate spirits from heaven, and turned the fair creation of God out of paradise, still lurking and still raging in the bosom of every child of Adam in his unregenerate state, rejects God's method of saving, and clings to the scheme of creature doings, human merits, and the covenant of works, rather than the covenant of grace. And although the word of God is so explicit, that, in the language of my text, no flesh can be justified in the sight of God by the deeds of the law, yet men are determined to try whether they can or not. They hazard their souls, and even woo damnation rather than bow to God's plan of saving them, "not submitting to the righteousness of God." Yet, surely, of all the questions that can interest the mind of man, this must be the highest and the greatest, "How do I stand before the holy God?" ‘

- from Joseph Irons’ sermon on Justification, delivered on February 11, 1849 ( http://www.truegospel.net/Irons/027.htm )

 

[kyredneck]

from Joseph Irons’ sermon on Justification

Well, Joseph Irons neglected to do some 'rightly dividing':

13 …the doers of the law shall be justified...Ro 2

20 ..by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified...Ro 3

 

[JesusFan]

Well, Joseph Irons neglected to do some 'rightly dividing':

13 …the doers of the law shall be justified...Ro 2

20 ..by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified...Ro 3

None have ever beden in a justified state before God due to any good works or law keeping

 

[kyredneck]

None have ever beden in a justified state before God due to any good works or law keeping

I done went and bragged on you and now you're relapsing back into one liner quips void of scripture.

 

[KenH]

Well, Joseph Irons neglected to do some 'rightly dividing':

13 …the doers of the law shall be justified...Ro 2

20 ..by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified...Ro 3

Philippians 2:12-13 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.

“The Christian is to actively take his part in sanctification, and deliberately pursue a life of obedience to God "in fear and trembling." Nevertheless, the passage explains that even the working out of our salvation is in fact a work of God: "It is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose." Our choices and actions remain under God's control after regeneration. Therefore, although a person is conscious of his efforts and struggles in sanctification, in the end God receives the honor, and the Christian still has no basis to boast of his achievements.”

- Vincent Cheung, Systematic Theology

 

[kyredneck]

@KenH, do you consider yourself a 'doer of the law'?

 

[KenH]

13 …the doers of the law shall be justified...Ro 2

@KenH, do you consider yourself a 'doer of the law'?

Only Christ was a perfect doer of the law on behalf of His elect. We fallen sinners, by nature and practice, cannot be perfect doers of the law, and only by being perfect can the elect stand before God - covered by the imputed righteousness of Christ.

 

[kyredneck]

Only Christ was a perfect doer of the law on behalf of His elect. We fallen sinners, by nature and practice, cannot be perfect doers of the law, and only by being perfect can the elect stand before God - covered by the imputed righteousness of Christ.

You don't see that a 'doer of the law' [Romans 2:13-15] is synonymous with a 'fulfiller of the law'? Romans 13:8-10

 

[kyredneck]

the passage explains that even the working out of our salvation is in fact a work of God:

Agree! So does Romans 2:13-15:

13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

 

[KenH]

You don't see that a 'doer of the law' [Romans 2:13-15] is synonymous with a 'fulfiller of the law'? Romans 13:8-10

First, let me state, clearly and categorically, that I reject the neonomian teachings of men such as Robert Baxter and Daniel Williams.

Second, John Gill deals well with this subject of a person loving as being a fulfiller of the law in Romans 13:8.

"that is, not who loves some one particular person, but every other person besides himself, even his neighbour, in the largest sense of the word, including all mankind, and that as himself; such an one has fulfilled the law, the law of the decalogue; that part of it particularly which relates to the neighbour; the second table of the law, as the next verse shows: though since there is no true love of our neighbour without the love of God, nor no true love of God without the love of our neighbour; and since these two involve each other, and include the whole law, it may be understood of fulfilling every part of it, that is, of doing it; for fulfilling the law means doing it, or acting according to it; and so far as a man loves, so far he fulfils, that is, does it: but this is not, nor can it be done perfectly, which is evident, partly from the impotency of man, who is weak and without strength, yea, dead in sin, and unable to do any thing of himself; and partly from the extensiveness of the law, which reaches to the thoughts and desires of the heart, as well as to words and actions; as also from the imperfection of love, for neither love to God, nor love to one another, either as men or Christians, is perfect; and consequently the fulfilling of the law by it is not perfect: hence this passage yields nothing in favour of the doctrine of justification by works; since the best works are imperfect, even those that spring from love, for love itself is imperfect; and are not done as they are, in a man's own strength, and without the Spirit and grace of God. Christ only has fulfilled the law perfectly, both as to parts and degrees; and to him only should we look for a justifying righteousness."

- John Gill, Gill's Bible Commentary

 

[Silverhair]

“Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Romans‬ ‭3:20‬ ‭NKJV‬‬

‘ The grand scheme of salvation, as revealed in God's holy word, is so arranged, settled, and determined, that it brings all the glory to God; but cursed pride, which cast apostate spirits from heaven, and turned the fair creation of God out of paradise, still lurking and still raging in the bosom of every child of Adam in his unregenerate state, rejects God's method of saving, and clings to the scheme of creature doings, human merits, and the covenant of works, rather than the covenant of grace. And although the word of God is so explicit, that, in the language of my text, no flesh can be justified in the sight of God by the deeds of the law, yet men are determined to try whether they can or not. They hazard their souls, and even woo damnation rather than bow to God's plan of saving them, "not submitting to the righteousness of God." Yet, surely, of all the questions that can interest the mind of man, this must be the highest and the greatest, "How do I stand before the holy God?" ‘

- from Joseph Irons’ sermon on Justification, delivered on February 11, 1849 ( http://www.truegospel.net/Irons/027.htm )

I fully agree with this statement, good thing faith is not a work.
Rom_3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
Rom_5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,
Rom_5:2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Gal_2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ,

 

[KenH]

Gal_2:16 knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ,

I find it to be interesting that the Wycliffe Bible translation and the Tyndale Bible translation and the King James Version translate that last phrase as "by the faith of Jesus Christ" (emphasis mine).

 

[kyredneck]

First, let me state, clearly and categorically, that I reject the neonomian teachings of men such as Robert Baxter and Daniel Williams.

Not familiar with them. I suppose you're insinuating I'm advocating neonomian teachings?

Second, John Gill deals well with this subject of a person loving as being a fulfiller of the law in Romans 13:8.

Lol, Gill, takes 10,000 words to articulate what could be done in 5, but he's one of my favorites.

this passage yields nothing in favour of the doctrine of justification by works

It's NOT 'by' or 'because' of our works, it's 'according to' our works:

6 who will render to every man according to his works: Ro 2

Our works indicate what lies within.

 

[kyredneck]

5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
6 who will render to every man according to his works:
7 to them that by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and incorruption, eternal life:
8 but unto them that are factious, and obey not the truth, but obey unrighteousness, shall be wrath and indignation,
9 tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that worketh evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Greek;
10 but glory and honor and peace to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek:
11 for there is no respect of persons with God.
12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without the law: and as many as have sinned under the law shall be judged by the law;
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them);
16 in the day when God shall judge the secrets of men, according to my gospel, by Jesus Christ. Ro 2

 

[KenH]

Not familiar with them. I suppose you're insinuating I'm advocating neonomian teachings?

No. I am not familiar with the broad expanse of what you advocate to state such.

 

[KenH]

6 who will render to every man according to his works: Ro 2

Salvation and everything accompanying it is ALL of God and NONE of man, including the elect.

"God will be the Judge, who is righteous, holy, just, and true; every man in particular will be judged; as the judgment will be general to all, it will be special to everyone, and will proceed according to their works; for God will render to wicked men according to the demerit of their sins, the just recompense of reward, eternal damnation; and to good men eternal life, not according to the merit of their good works, which have none in them, but according to the nature of them; such who believe in Christ, and perform good works from a principle of grace, shall receive the reward of the inheritance, which is a reward of grace, and not of debt. In other words, God will render to evil men according to the true desert of their evil deeds; and of his own free grace will render to good men, whom he has made so by his grace, what is suitable and agreeable to those good works, which, by the assistance of his grace, they have been enabled to perform." (emphasis mine)

- John Gill, Gill's Bible Commentary on Romans 2:6

 

[kyredneck]

No. I am not familiar with the broad expanse of what you advocate to state such.

Probably 50% of what I write is quoting scripture, maybe more. You're familiar with that, I know. I'd love for you to give your thoughts, not some commentator's thoughts, on the scripture given in post #14.

 

[KenH]

Probably 50% of what I write is quoting scripture, maybe more. You're familiar with that, I know. I'd love for you to give your thoughts, not some commentator's thoughts, on the scripture given in post #14.

I see no reason to, as we say, reinvent the wheel. If I quote someone, such as John Gill, I am telling you my thoughts, as my thoughts agree with his in what I quoted.

But I can tell you that I believe the reward of the elect, is Christ ("I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward." - Genesis 15:1) and spending eternity worshipping the Triune God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. As Newton put it, "When we've been there ten thousand years, Bright shining as the sun, We've no less days to sing God's praise, Than when we'd first begun."

 

[kyredneck]

for God will render to wicked men according to the demerit of their sins, the just recompense of reward, eternal damnation; and to good men eternal life, not according to the merit of their good works, which have none in them, but according to the nature of them; such who believe in Christ, and perform good works from a principle of grace, shall receive the reward of the inheritance, which is a reward of grace, and not of debt. In other words,

Amen! You're preaching to the choir. God is judging two hearts in the context:

The unregenerate heart:
5 but after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up for thyself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; Ro 2

The regenerate heart:
13 for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified:
14 (for when Gentiles that have not the law do by nature the things of the law, these, not having the law, are the law unto themselves;
15 in that they show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness therewith, and their thoughts one with another accusing or else excusing them); Ro 2

 

[JesusFan]

I done went and bragged on you and now you're relapsing back into one liner quips void of scripture.

Romans 3:20