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Romans 8:6.....What is it getting at.

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Iconoclast

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6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Perhaps some of you have considered this verse.

What is it getting at?

What are we to consider with this verse?

List any thoughts you have on this.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I think we benefit by reaching back to verse 1 (before the "for" verses):

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

I view these contrasting statements to be comparing what it is to be "in Christ Jesus" with our former life.

To have a mind set on the flesh is death. To have a mind set on the Spirit is life and peace.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death. The Law could not do this because it proved weak through the flesh (the problem was not the Law, but the flesh.....that is, us).

What the Law could not do God did by sending Christ, in the likeness of sinful flesh. He who knew no sin was made sin for us, and He condemned sin in the flesh.

sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh so the requirement of the Law would be fulfilled in us.

That is, fulfilled in us, who walk in according to the Spirit - not the flesh.

The reason - those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

This is contrasted with us - we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in us.

But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
These verses may also shed some light on verse 6 (then I'll be quiet :Speechless ).

1 John 1:5–7 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.

1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.
 

5 point Gillinist

Active Member
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Perhaps some of you have considered this verse.

What is it getting at?

What are we to consider with this verse?

List any thoughts you have on this.


The heart that dwells on, craves, plans, and loves sin is a man who is spiritually dead, this man walks in sin.
The one who fights against sin, confesses sinful thoughts and desires as sin, and whose desire is for righteousness and holiness is a man who is spiritually alive.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
1 Corinthians 3

1And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. 2I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; 3for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? 4For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal?
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Romans 7

14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.

17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.

19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
 

Van

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Here we have yet another disinformation thread. What does Romans 8:6 (or 8:7 or 8:27) actually say?

Romans 8:6
For the mind set G5427 on the flesh is death, but the mind set G5427 on the Spirit is life and peace,

Romans 8:7
because the mind set G5427 on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so,

Romans 8:27
and He who searches the hearts knows what the mind set G5427 on the Spirit is, because He intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

The above consistently translates "phronēma (G5427) and "ho" (G3588) as "mind set on the." The idea is if we place our minds on fleshly desires or spiritual things, the result is hostility toward God, or peace with God.

And the false doctrine taught by Calvinism is that the lost are unable to set their minds on any of the spiritual things. However, Paul teaches men of flesh (the lost) can understand and grasp spiritual milk, the fundamentals of the gospel. See 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.

John 3:16 says everyone believing into Him will not perish. Thus God indicates the lost are able to believe, thus able to set their minds on gospel fundamentals. Those not yet born anew are not indwelt, so they cannot set their minds on their indwelt spirit, but can set their minds of some spiritual things, the fundamentals of the gospel. And of course, those that have been indwelt can set their minds on the Spirit, because they have become saints and Christ knows their mind set and intercedes for them.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
"mind set on the."

Van stop posting your made-up Greek translations on here, it shows your ignorance of the language!

here is the verse, now show how you get "mind set on the" from?

τὸ γὰρ φρόνημα τῆς σαρκὸς θάνατος, τὸ δὲ φρόνημα τοῦ πνεύματος ζωὴ καὶ εἰρήνη·
 

Iconoclast

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Now we are off to a good start.
JonC first looks at the surrounding verses which should be our first step.
JonC offers a couple of texts that come to mind as part of a general consideration...which is always healthy.
Jon C offers a few verses that come to mind.
5 point G see's the contrast of believers and unbelievers.
SBG notices some related verses dealing with the ongoing struggle in Rom7.
Van made a contribution before diverting off somewhere.
Anyone else have an idea how to open up and consider verse6?
 
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Iconoclast

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I have been making a case for a few years now, but most recently on the advantages of looking back to Godly Pastors and Teachers to see if they can provoke godly thoughts and emotions in us to better equip us to understand and serve God to our outmost.
Here is one such approach. John OWEN wrote a whole book on this one verse. How did he do that? I will offer portions of his work to suggest a more complete approach to opening up scripture.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
More Scriptures

Galatians 5

16 I say, then, walk by the Spirit and you will certainly not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don’t do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I am warning you about these things—as I warned you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. The law is not against such things.24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
John OWEN wrote a whole book on this one verse. How did he do that?

about 35 years ago when I used to live in London and attended the Church where Martyn Lloyd-Jones was Pastor, there was Dr R T Kendall, from the USA, who was the Pastor. He spent some 26 weeks on Philippians 3:3! :Geek
 

Iconoclast

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Here is part of the table of contents. I find this already instructive.

THE GRACE AND DUTY OF BEING SPIRITUALLY MINDED DECLARED AND PRACTICALLY IMPROVED.
To be spiritually minded is life and peace. — Romans 8:6
Set your affection on things above. — Colossians 3:2.

LONDON: 1681

Table of Contents Prefatory Note Preface PART 1.
CHAPTER 1. The Words of the Text Explained: To be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:6.

CHAPTER 2. A particular account of the nature of this grace and duty of being spiritually minded.

CHAPTER 3. Outward means and occasions of such thoughts of spiritual things as do not prove men to be spiritually minded

CHAPTER 4. Other evidences of thoughts about spiritual things arising from an internal principle of grace.

CHAPTER 5. The objects of spiritual thoughts, or what they are conversant about, evidencing them in whom they are to be spiritually minded

CHAPTER 6. Directions unto the exercise of our thoughts on things above, things future, invisible, and eternal; on God himself.

CHAPTER 7. Especial objects of spiritual thoughts on the glorious state of heaven, and what belongs thereunto -- First, of Christ himself

CHAPTER 8. Spiritual thoughts of God himself -- The opposition unto them and neglect of them, with their causes and the way of their prevalency.

CHAPTER 9. What of God or in God we are to think and meditate upon -- His being. .

CHAPTER 10. Sundry things tendered unto such as complain that, they know not how, they are not able to abide in holy thoughts of God.

PART 2.
CHAPTER 11. The seat of spiritual mindedness in the affections -- The nature and use of them

CHAPTER 12. What is required in and unto our affections that they may be spiritual -- A three-fold work on the affections described.

CHAPTER 13. The work of the renovation of our affections -- How differenced from any other impression on or change wrought in them

CHAPTER 14. The second difference between affections spiritually renewed and those which have been only changed by light and conviction.

CHAPTER 15. Delight of believers in the holy institutions of divine worship

CHAPTER 16. Assimilation unto things heavenly and spiritual in affections spiritually renewed.

CHAPTER 17. Decays in spiritual affections, with the causes and danger of them

CHAPTER 18. The state of spiritual affections.

CHAPTER 19. The true notion and consideration of spiritual and heavenly things.

CHAPTER 20. The application of the soul unto spiritual objects.

CHAPTER 21. Spiritual mindedness life and peace.
 
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Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
More Scriptures

Galatians 5

16 I say, then, walk by the Spirit and you will certainly not carry out the desire of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is against the Spirit, and the Spirit desires what is against the flesh; these are opposed to each other, so that you don’t do what you want. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.19 Now the works of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, moral impurity, promiscuity, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambitions, dissensions, factions, 21 envy, drunkenness, carousing, and anything similar. I am warning you about these things—as I warned you before—that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, and self-control. The law is not against such things.24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.
Good input. these are verses that are at the heart of the issue.
Many read over them and that is profitable.
let's see if Dr.Owen can unpack these verses using the rest of the bible.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Here is part of the table of contents. I find this already instructive.

THE GRACE AND DUTY OF BEING SPIRITUALLY MINDED DECLARED AND PRACTICALLY IMPROVED.
To be spiritually minded is life and peace. — Romans 8:6
Set your affection on things above. — Colossians 3:2.

LONDON: 1681

Table of Contents Prefatory Note Preface PART 1.
CHAPTER 1. The Words of the Text Explained: To be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:6.

CHAPTER 2. A particular account of the nature of this grace and duty of being spiritually minded.

CHAPTER 3. Outward means and occasions of such thoughts of spiritual things as do not prove men to be spiritually minded

CHAPTER 4. Other evidences of thoughts about spiritual things arising from an internal principle of grace.

CHAPTER 5. The objects of spiritual thoughts, or what they are conversant about, evidencing them in whom they are to be spiritually minded

CHAPTER 6. Directions unto the exercise of our thoughts on things above, things future, invisible, and eternal; on God himself.

CHAPTER 7. Especial objects of spiritual thoughts on the glorious state of heaven, and what belongs thereunto -- First, of Christ himself

CHAPTER 8. Spiritual thoughts of God himself -- The opposition unto them and neglect of them, with their causes and the way of their prevalency.

CHAPTER 9. What of God or in God we are to think and meditate upon -- His being. .

CHAPTER 10. Sundry things tendered unto such as complain that, they know not how, they are not able to abide in holy thoughts of God.

PART 2.
CHAPTER 11. The seat of spiritual mindedness in the affections -- The nature and use of them

CHAPTER 12. What is required in and unto our affections that they may be spiritual -- A three-fold work on the affections described.

CHAPTER 13. The work of the renovation of our affections -- How differenced from any other impression on or change wrought in them

CHAPTER 14. The second difference between affections spiritually renewed and those which have been only changed by light and conviction.

you mean all of these chapters are on this one verse?
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
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6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Perhaps some of you have considered this verse.

What is it getting at?

What are we to consider with this verse?

List any thoughts you have on this.
Some good thoughts on this verse already. I'm inclined to go a little further, first up, and then down the verses to try and find the meaning.
Romans 8:4. '.....That the righteous requirements of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.' How are the righteous requirements of the law fulfilled in us? By God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh (v.3). Christ has lived the life of total righteousness and obedience to the law of God that we cannot live, and He has paid, in our stead (i.e. in our place; instead of us), the penalty that the law demands (Ezekiel 18:4; Romans 6:23). But that is not all. God's righteousness having been magnified (Isaiah 42:21) and His law established (Romans 3:31), He sends His Spirit down to lead us in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.
Romans 8:8-9). 'So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.' If you do not have the Spirit, you do not belong to God and you cannot please Him. Why not? Because your whole mindset is carnal. You 'set your minds on the things of the flesh' (v.5). If that is the case and continues to be so, Christ cannot have died for you, and God cannot have given you His Holy Spirit. QED, I think.
 

Iconoclast

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you mean all of these chapters are on this one verse?


Yes indeed....i was stunned when I first read this work. I said there is no way this could be...until I read it.
This work has actually help me to read the verse and others , with a more complete understanding.

In this work he will unfold each phrase...ie,
it is a grace,
it is a duty.
What is being "spiritually minded",
what is being "carnally minded,'
What are causes,
what are warning signs,
what helps to obey,
what hinders it,
He uses the whole bible, with examples and helps to illustrate how it is so.

Here is a free online version;
The Grace and Duty of Being Spiritually Minded - Modernized | Monergism
 

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Some good thoughts on this verse already. I'm inclined to go a little further, first up, and then down the verses to try and find the meaning.
Romans 8:4. '.....That the righteous requirements of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.' How are the righteous requirements of the law fulfilled in us? By God sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh (v.3). Christ has lived the life of total righteousness and obedience to the law of God that we cannot live, and He has paid, in our stead (i.e. in our place; instead of us), the penalty that the law demands (Ezekiel 18:4; Romans 6:23). But that is not all. God's righteousness having been magnified (Isaiah 42:21) and His law established (Romans 3:31), He sends His Spirit down to lead us in the paths of righteousness for His name's sake.
Romans 8:8-9). 'So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His.' If you do not have the Spirit, you do not belong to God and you cannot please Him. Why not? Because your whole mindset is carnal. You 'set your minds on the things of the flesh' (v.5). If that is the case and continues to be so, Christ cannot have died for you, and God cannot have given you His Holy Spirit. QED, I think.


I have his works and worked through this in two older version, I am going to enjoy taking a fresh look as if I had not looked at it already and see if I can glean additional verses and understanding...here it is free pdf file;
The Grace and Duty of Being Spiritually Minded - Modernized | Monergism
 

Iconoclast

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The Grace and Duty of Being Spiritually Minded - Modernized | Monergism

Here we can all view the same texts and verses...if any find good things, they can cut and paste, then discuss why it was good.
If anyone sees something to object to, they also can cut and paste, and show from scripture what they would offer...
What could possibly go wrong?

ANALYSIS. After an explanation of Romans 8:6, the duty of being spiritually minded is described as including —
1. The exercise of the mind in its thoughts concerning iritual things;

2. The inclination of the mind in its affections towards them; and,

3. The complacency of the mind in them,

chap. I. The treatise is divided into two parts: —


I. The former relating to the first of these heads, — the nature of spiritual thoughts; II. The latter to the two other heads, — the exercise of spiritual affections.

PART I. As to the character of those thoughts which are the evidence of spiritual mindedness, —

1. They are natural, in the sense of arising from ourselves, and as distinguished from thoughts suggested to the mind by (1.) impressions constraining it to acts opposed to its habitual procedure, and
(2.) outward occasions; such as

[1.] the preaching of the Word,

[2.] prayer, and

[3.] the discourses and remarks of other men

2. They abound us, filling and engrossing our minds, II.-IV. An inquiry follows into the objects of spiritual thoughts; which are, —

1. The dispensations of Providence;


2. Special trials and temptations; and

3. Heavenly and eternal realities. In regard to the latter, —

(1.) The motives inducing us to fix our thoughts on them are mentioned; faith is thereby increased, hope is exercised, preparation is made for the cross, and the mind weaned from the world.

And (2.) Directions for this spiritual exercise are supplied; — the mind must be occupied with right notions of these objects, directed to them with intensity, and led to compare the blessedness of an interest in them with the opposite state of eternal death and misery, V.,VI. The especial objects of ritual contemplation are, —

1. The person of Christ; and,

. God himself, who must in our thoughts, in opposition to atheism, practical infidelity, various inferior degrees and ways of forgetting God, and the indulgence of secret lusts. The thoughts which are characteristic of spiritual affections are delineated,

In our consideration of God, we must think of, —
(1.) His being;

(2.) His omnipresence and omniscience; and,

(3.) His omnipotence, IX. Various counsels are tendered to such as cannot fix their thoughts with steadiness on spiritual and heavenly objects, X


.
 
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JesusFan

Well-Known Member
I think we benefit by reaching back to verse 1 (before the "for" verses):

Romans 8:1 Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

I view these contrasting statements to be comparing what it is to be "in Christ Jesus" with our former life.

To have a mind set on the flesh is death. To have a mind set on the Spirit is life and peace.

The law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed us from the law of sin and death. The Law could not do this because it proved weak through the flesh (the problem was not the Law, but the flesh.....that is, us).

What the Law could not do God did by sending Christ, in the likeness of sinful flesh. He who knew no sin was made sin for us, and He condemned sin in the flesh.

sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh so the requirement of the Law would be fulfilled in us.

That is, fulfilled in us, who walk in according to the Spirit - not the flesh.

The reason - those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, and those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

This is contrasted with us - we are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in us.

But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.
is this not a warning to the saved that if they continue though to have the flesh lead them, can and will reap a bitter harvest?
 
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