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Featured Does the Lord allow so-called Christians and Pastor's to commit suicide?

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by CalTech, Apr 7, 2022.

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  1. Dave G

    Dave G Well-Known Member

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    I agree.
    As have I, but I am glad that He has delivered me from them.

    It's not that I don't get discouraged from time to time ( and occasionally depressed for short periods ),
    but it is that He has reminded me of Who He is and who and what I am through His precious word.
    Yes, it is.:(
     
    #21 Dave G, Apr 9, 2022
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  2. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    how familiar with the IRS and 501C registration?

    I would like you to show proof by example that such control is seen.
     
    #22 agedman, Apr 9, 2022
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  3. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

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    Yes the same for me, it all started when I was 50 and finally about 8 years ago, I have not suffered from a major depression. He deals with each individual in His Way for His purpose. There is no methodology connected to His timing and in His manner in dealing with His Children, we are all different with different backgrounds, differing experiences, personalities, families and what we have suffered.
    Lord bless you abundantly.......dear brother in Christ Jesus......
     
    #23 CalTech, Apr 9, 2022
  4. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    I have the same question.
     
    #24 Squire Robertsson, Apr 9, 2022
  5. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

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    Here is the main foundation of what it means when a "church" becomes a "registered agent" of the Government.

    "In case you may not have understood this, it means your church has NO constitutional rights once you sign up for 501c3. You have no First Amendment freedom of speech or freedom of religion rights, and you have no Fifth Amendment rights, which means the state can hold you as a witness against yourself to sentence you for any crime they choose. (This is not to say our government will do that, but I'm pointing out that they have the legal power to do that under the 501c3 contract.)"

    "After the 501c3 contract is established, you are now a corporate soul, which means you only have privileges (not freedoms) that are granted by the judicial system according to the regulations of your contract. At that point, the IRS has full power to remove your privileges whenever they choose, and for any reason."

    "In summary, this means if you signed up for 501c3, and the IRS says you cannot say something from the pulpit, then you DO NOT have any legal grounds or constitutional rights to argue against the State, and you are bound by lawful contract to keep silent."

    501c3: The Devil's Church
     
    #25 CalTech, Apr 9, 2022
  6. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

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    Here is the main foundation of what it means when a "church" becomes a "registered agent" of the Government.

    "In case you may not have understood this, it means your church has NO constitutional rights once you sign up for 501c3. You have no First Amendment freedom of speech or freedom of religion rights, and you have no Fifth Amendment rights, which means the state can hold you as a witness against yourself to sentence you for any crime they choose. (This is not to say our government will do that, but I'm pointing out that they have the legal power to do that under the 501c3 contract.)"

    "After the 501c3 contract is established, you are now a corporate soul, which means you only have privileges (not freedoms) that are granted by the judicial system according to the regulations of your contract. At that point, the IRS has full power to remove your privileges whenever they choose, and for any reason."

    "In summary, this means if you signed up for 501c3, and the IRS says you cannot say something from the pulpit, then you DO NOT have any legal grounds or constitutional rights to argue against the State, and you are bound by lawful contract to keep silent."

    501c3: The Devil's Church
     
    #26 CalTech, Apr 9, 2022
  7. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    As my home church is located in San Francisco, CA, we have not experienced any government actions against our pulpit ministry,
     
    #27 Squire Robertsson, Apr 9, 2022
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    It is presumptuous to declare a professing Christian “unsaved”, no matter their situation, even suicide.

    You spent a lot of time and energy on a subject that has no potential for edification of any Christian anywhere.

    Peace to you
     
    #28 canadyjd, Apr 9, 2022
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. agedman

    agedman Well-Known Member
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    Perhaps this thread may be more recognized in a different forum?
     
    #29 agedman, Apr 9, 2022
  10. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

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    No, it's not presumptuous, it's all founded and based upon the Lord's Word........prove me otherwise.
    If God's Word produces that suicide is a fatal sin, then it is.....If you desire to argue with the Lord, well that is your decision.
    And I do disagree with you it has much potential for true believer's who agree and who hear the Lord's voice.
    Unbelief in Truth never negates HIS TRUTH.
    And if persons are offended by the truth, well the Lord did state the Truth always offends those who care nothing about it. And Truth is meant to offend.........I'm just quoting what the Lord states.
    The Lord bless you....
     
    #30 CalTech, Apr 9, 2022
  11. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    I’m not going to follow the link. If you have a specific scripture that you believe condemns someone to hell for suicide share it and I’ll look at the context

    peace to you
     
    #31 canadyjd, Apr 10, 2022
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  12. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

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    That is your choice........
     
    #32 CalTech, Apr 10, 2022
  13. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Are you really requesting that we post EVERY verse in the Bible that does not say that people who commit suicide invariably go to hell? That would involve posting the entire Bible, because no verse says what you affirm. So just for the sake of argument, pretend that I have just cut and pasted all 66 books in a NKJV Bible.

    [insert Bible here]

    … see, no verse says “suicide is the unpardonable sin that blots your name from the Lamb’s Book of Life”. Thus you have been proven wrong. :rolleyes:

    Here are just two verses to consider:
    "Therefore I say to you, any sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven people, but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. Whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the [age] to come.” - Matthew 12:31-32 [NASB]
    ​
    (HINT: suicide is NOT ‘blasphemy against the Spirit’, but it is sad enough for those left behind without you spreading hurtful lies.)

    Romans 10 [NASB]
    5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness. 6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down), 7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)." 8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"--that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus [as] Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same [Lord] is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."​

    Truth or a lie?
     
    #33 atpollard, Apr 10, 2022
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  14. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    And it is your choice not to support your claim with scripture, which makes it a non-biblical opinion.

    peace to you
     
    #34 canadyjd, Apr 10, 2022
  15. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

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    "Thou shalt not kill"......that includes oneself.
    The Lord has written within His Word, those who have committed suicide, and their reasons for doing so and those though they suffered greatly, and wishing they were never born, or would die, never did because He kept them from doing so. When He says He keeps His sheep from destruction, especially self-murder, He keeps His promises.

    So what you say, is a lie.........
    I shall not be moved from His Truth.
     
    #35 CalTech, Apr 10, 2022
  16. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

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    God's word teaches us in the Old and New Testament, who killed themselves and why, and the Lord's Word teaches us who He has kept from hopeless and destruction.

    Thou shalt not kill........that includes self-murder.......simple.

    your problem is with the Lord's Word. I pray He gives you the grace to see, and ears to hear, what He stands for. His ways are NOT our ways, and that includes His Justice.
    The Lord bless you
     
    #36 CalTech, Apr 10, 2022
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Does the Lord allow so-called Christians who falsley judge Christians who suffer from real mental health issues …..never mind its not worth it.
     
    #37 Revmitchell, Apr 11, 2022
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  18. atpollard

    atpollard Well-Known Member

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    Is "murder" an unpardonable sin?
    (I never claimed that suicide was "good" or that it was "not a sin" ... I claim that it can be covered by the same blood that covers all other sins.)
     
    #38 atpollard, Apr 11, 2022
  19. canadyjd

    canadyjd Well-Known Member

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    No doubt “Thou shall not kill” includes oneself.

    However, we are not saved by keeping OT law.

    Please quote the passage of scripture that says God “Keeps His sheep from destruction, especially self-murder””?

    Christians have suffered “destruction” (death as martyrs) from the beginning. Any reference to keeping “His sheep from destruction” must mean keeping them from eternal damnation, which would include not holding them guilty of murdering others or self.

    I will patiently wait for you to provide scripture that says “He keeps His sheep from destruction, especially self-murder”.

    peace to you
     
    #39 canadyjd, Apr 11, 2022
  20. CalTech

    CalTech Active Member

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    The so-called disease of the mind, is a reflection of the chaos within the mind and soul and spirit. If they without hope they seek to take the matter in their own hands.
    Without Hope in Christ there is no safety, when one is "hid" in Christ, Christ is their protection no matter how much they suffer in their tormented minds, because He promises to keep them.
    Simple and Biblical.
    Lord bless you.
     
    #40 CalTech, Apr 11, 2022
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