You have no one on idea what you are talking about. Further, your condemnation is not only ignorant but dangerous. They s thread should not stand.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Does the Lord allow so-called Christians and Pastor's to commit suicide?
- Thread starter CalTech
- Start date
You have no one on idea what you are talking about. Further, your condemnation is not only ignorant but dangerous. They s thread should not stand.
CalTech
Active Member
What I am saying is, that a true believer would never commit suicide, because his trust and Hope is in the Lord, when you take your own life you are without hope.
The blood only covers sins once confessed and asked forgiveness for......when one kills oneself they can not ask foregiveness for their sin. David had someone killed to satisfy his lust for the man's wife, and forgot about it, until the prophet came and informed him of his sin, once David confessed his sin, he was forgiven, however he still had to suffer the consequence for that sin. He took a life, and the Lord took his infant son. Whatsoever you sow, you shall reap........saith the Lord.
CalTech
Active Member
I will not contend with fleshly human reasoning. There is dishonesty in this question.
CalTech
Active Member
Sorry you feel that way, but I do know what I am talking about........I lived the nightmare of major depression's and desired the Lord to take me, I did not desire to live any longer, but He was my Hope, I cried out and He delivered me from ALL my fears.
Lord bless you......
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
The chaos within the mind is usually caused by chemical imbalances. David pretended “madness” to avoid capture. Mental illness has been recognized in scripture.
Please provide the scripture where God says He “will keep His sheep from destruction, especially self-murder”.
That is your claim. Back it up with scripture or simply admit it’s your opinion.
peace to you
Last edited:
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I asked you to provide scripture to support your claim that God said He “will protect His sheep from destruction, especially self-murder”.
If you cannot find scripture to support your claim then it is you that is engaging in “dishonest, fleshly human reasoning”
Scripture tells us nothing can separate us from the love of Christ. Nothing! Not mental illness. Not suicide.
The bottom line is you are looking for fleshly evidence of salvation or damnation, when only God knows if a professing Christian has Holy Spirit indwelling.
Provide scripture or admit it’s only your opinion based on ignorance of mental illness and what scripture actually teaches about salvation.
peace to you
CalTech
Active Member
Personal testimony is proof:
I lived the nightmare of major depression's and desired the Lord to take me, I did not desire to live any longer, but He was my Hope, I cried out and He delivered me from ALL my fears.
Lord bless you......
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
I am certainly joyful that God has delivered you from major depression and blessed you with His reassuring hope.
However, personal testimony is not “proof” of a broader application to all people. Only scripture provides that kind of truth.
Many who have strayed from God’s word have relied on personal testimony and even personal “encounters” with Jesus as “proof” of their teaching.
You have the potential foundation for a wonderful ministry to those who suffer depression. To comfort them as God comforted you.
Peace to you
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I am going to call you on this. If God had not delivered you, what would THAT have proven?
CalTech
Active Member
He brought me through it, I did not kill myself, He did not allow it......
I was His.
Thank you for your time.
Lord bless you.....This is done between me and you........sad......
atpollard
Well-Known Member
No ... sad is that God has blessed you with "hope" and you have chosen to turn that positive message that "God saved you through the tribulation of the dark places, and He can save others as well" and twisted "hope" around into "despair" and a "curse" that you wish to share with others that may be currently suffering.
You said that God brought you through it. Congratulations, God has delivered MANY people through many forms of evil and trouble and despair. God has also allowed many people to continue to suffer and even to die. Paul was stoned and lived, but Stephen was stoned and died. Does that mean that Paul was saved and Stephen was damned? ... OF COURSE NOT!
However you have been tested and preserved, so you have an opportunity to ENCOURAGE. It may seem trite, but my Pentecostal brothers have a pithy saying "there is no Testimony without a Test". It beggars the imagination why you would choose to use the gift that you have been given to set YOURSELF on the throne of God and proclaim "This sin God forgave, but that sin God could never forgive". What do you know of THEIR suffering? What "grace" comes from stealing the hope from a parent that their child might be forgiven and waiting in heaven? How can YOU know if you cannot even provide a verse that affirms what you claim.
By stating your claim as a negative "Those who commit suicide cannot be saved." rather than a positive "God has the power to deliver His children through the dark season of suicidal thoughts and restore within us a hope and a reason to live." you offer a message of death and despair rather than a message of life and hope.
That is why so many have taken exception to your words.
I would have lost heart, unless I had believed
That I would see the goodness of the LORD
In the land of the living.
That I would see the goodness of the LORD
In the land of the living.
Rather than throwing a rope to the drowning, you throw an anchor to those that love someone that has already drown ... and an anchor that is not YOURS to throw:
For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Except you are not proof of every other human. Each human is their own proof. You can only speak for yourself, and no other soul on earth.
Sin was paid for before creation. The forgiveness of your sin does not help me out. Forgiveness only helps one who is still alive. Once in the presence of God, forgiveness is a mute point. That person has already passed from death to life. So attempting a last minute confession or repentance was already accomplished before the creation of the earth.
Once again rejecting redemption is the only thing that damns a soul. Sin is just human nature. Unfortunately some sin is so connected to the state of one's mind, it leaves no hope, even if that soul never rejected the gift of salvation. If one is so severely mentally challenged, how could they understand sin and redemption to begin with? If one cannot even understand acceptance or rejection, they have never rejected the Holy Spirit. The point is more about constantly rejecting God, not necessarily about accepting God. Most people are in their right mind, and reject God.
Accepting God is a conscious decision. Either God has redeemed them, or God will give them a chance to do so with a right mind and ability. We just cannot declare a person's mind at the state of death. Only each soul can do that for themselves.
I will say it again this thread and what the op is purporting is dangerous. This is true because it teaches that those suffering from depression to the point of suicide will be cured of it and those who are not are unsaved. It is false theology and evil theology as well as dangerous. Its similar to telling someone who is talking about suicide to go ahead and kill themselves. By that I mean it can lead to further discouragement and pull someone away from getting real help. I am appalled that the owner and administration is allowing this to go on. It also could very easily put the owner and admins of this board under a liability they do not want.
This issue must always be handled with care and discretion. We have already had one board member who killed themself that I tried to work with. There were some then on this board saying some very similar things. I pray God does not allow this thread to effect anyone suffering and that the admins of this board would repent.
This issue must always be handled with care and discretion. We have already had one board member who killed themself that I tried to work with. There were some then on this board saying some very similar things. I pray God does not allow this thread to effect anyone suffering and that the admins of this board would repent.
CalTech
Active Member
Greetings,
Psa 34:17 The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.
Psa 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Psa 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.
God's Word speaks for itself, and gives examples on who killed themselves and why in the Old & New Testament. And the Lord's Word also gives witness to whom He delivered out from such deep state's of depression's and despair, and desiring of death....that is enough witness for me, and many other's.
Those who commit suicide were never saved. To deny that is denying the Lord's Word, and calling Him a liar....
That is Biblical fact, just because "christian culture" can not accept that truth is on them. "Let the Lord be true and every man a liar".
Anyone who killed themselves in the Old & New testament did it out of pride, or self-condemnation.
There is no Middle Ground with the Lord it is either Yes or No, anything that tends to compromise His Truth, tends towards evil, and questioning His Truth and Righteous Judgement.
I shall not be moved from His Truth.....
The Lord bless you......
Last edited:
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
Then quote the scripture where you claim God says “He will keep His sheep from destruction, especially self-murder”
Quote it, or admit it’s only your opinion. Your OPINION is not the same as God’s truth. The best you can claim is that you will not be moved from your opinion, despite scripture which shoes your error
peace to you
CalTech
Active Member
Psa 34:17 The righteous cry, and the LORD heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles.
Psa 34:18 The LORD is nigh unto them that are of a broken heart; and saveth such as be of a contrite spirit.
Psa 34:19 Many are the afflictions of the righteous: but the LORD delivereth him out of them all.
Psa 34:22 The LORD redeemeth the soul of his servants: and none of them that trust in him shall be desolate.
Either the Lord's Word is true according to His Promises, or He is lying.......
In His Love....
canadyjd
Well-Known Member
How do you reconcile those passages with the historical fact that Christians have been martyred from the time of Jesus and will be until He returns?
Did God deliver Paul from all his troubles or was he beheaded in Rome? Did God save Stephen, with his broken heart and contrite spirit, or was he stoned to death by the Pharisees?
Strange how you apply those passages with general assurances of God’s deliverance ONLY to suicide.
You made a very specific claim. You claimed that “God has said”, “He will deliver His sheep from destruction, especially self-murder”.
Show me scripture where “God has said” those words or anything close to those words. What you quoted falls far short of your claim.
peace to you
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
If you want to hold others to that standard then you have to hold to it as well. That being said you may find yourself in trouble as I am quite sure there are sins in your life that you have never asked forgiveness for. Sins that you may not even realize that you have committed so by your standard you are lost.
You have taken the blood of Christ Jesus and made it almost good enough
The blood of Christ was sufficient to cover all mankinds sins but is only efficient for those that trust in Him. We confess our sins not because He dos not know what they are but so that we do.