Fact that 1560 Geneva Bible is better than 1611 edition in some places

[Logos1560]

Don't you even know that Greek scholars disagree among themselves on the veracity of several passages in the critical texts?

Don't you even know that the Greek editors of the twenty to thirty varying Textus Receptus editions disagree among themselves on some words in their editions?

Erasmus introduced some conjectures in his varying editions that are found in no known Greek NT manuscripts and introduced some readings from an edition of the Latin Vulgate of Jerome.
Beza also introduced some conjectures in his varying editions.

 

[JD731]

Since I have clearly asserted that errors introduced by men are not pure words of God, I have in effect warned against errors in any manuscripts, texts, and Bible translations.

You fail to demonstrate that I advocate the acceptance of any errors introduced by men so your accusation would bear false witness.

Where have you warned against actual errors found in Textus Receptus editions and in KJV editions?

I haven't. I figured that the word of God comes from God. If that is not true why are we creating scores of translations that you say are not the words of God, none of them. Why are we as the church not printing Greek bibles and sending those who get born again to Greek language school? Oh, I know why! Because no one believes the Greek texts either. We are stuck now, not with pastor teachers in local assemblies whom God has called and equipped to instruct the saints, but we are stuck with translations committees whose ministry is worldwide who are self called leg pullers and self proclaimed prophets, speaking for God in a hundred different ways. (so far)

 

[Logos1560]

I figured that the word of God comes from God.

I believe that the actual absolutely pure words of God came by inspiration of God to the prophets and apostles.

Your posts would demonstrate that you have attacked and accused me for believing that the word of God comes from God. Would it not be hypocritical and wrong for you to attack me for believing the same statement that you asserted above?

Some of your claims would suggest that words added by men in TR editions and in 1611 and errors introduced by men come from God. Those claims would in effect conflict with your own assertion that the word of God comes from God.

 

[Logos1560]

Because no one believes the Greek texts either.

You do not prove your claim to be true. Why should your unsupported opinion be blindly trusted?

You ignore the fact that there are some Textus Receptus only advocates. D. A. Waite asserts that he believes the Textus Receptus edition of Scrivener, which would make your above claim false. D. A. Waite maintained “that God’s promise to preserve His Words of the Bible involves His Hebrew and Greek words” (Foes of the KJB, p. 46). Waite noted: “You cannot ‘preserve’ what has not already been in existence. His Words that He promised to preserve and has preserved are His Hebrew and Greek Words from the Old and New Testament” (p. 34).

In addition, you avoid the fact that there are many Bible believers who believe that the preserved Scriptures in the original languages are the proper standard and greater authority for the making and trying of all Bible translations just as the KJV translators acknowledged in their preface to the 1611.

 

[Logos1560]

Do you trust in the Hebrew and Greek texts that the Kjv used for their translation?

JD731, you answered this question "yes", and then in a later post you contradict yourself by claiming that "no one believes the Greek texts".

Does your later statement suggest that you did not mean what you said about trusting the Hebrew and Greek texts that were used in the making of the KJV?

 

[JD731]

You do not prove your claim to be true. Why should your unsupported opinion be blindly trusted?

You ignore the fact that there are some Textus Receptus only advocates. D. A. Waite asserts that he believes the Textus Receptus edition of Scrivener, which would make your above claim false. D. A. Waite maintained “that God’s promise to preserve His Words of the Bible involves His Hebrew and Greek words” (Foes of the KJB, p. 46). Waite noted: “You cannot ‘preserve’ what has not already been in existence. His Words that He promised to preserve and has preserved are His Hebrew and Greek Words from the Old and New Testament” (p. 34).

In addition, you avoid the fact that there are many Bible believers who believe that the preserved Scriptures in the original languages are the proper standard and greater authority for the making and trying of all Bible translations just as the KJV translators acknowledged in their preface to the 1611.

Many scholars disagrees with D A Waite and those people are greater in number and influence than he and his disciples. So, Christian doctrine is not determined by what God says but what scholars you choose to follow has to say about it? Please do not ask me about those Greek words, I can't read them. I trust that God so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son to die for us so we could be saved from the penalty of sin, which is the second death in the lake of fire, and if he did that, he is not going to hide it from the world in dead languages that no one understands without devoting one's life to learning them. These guys that you champion learns them and then learns about manuscript evidence and translate new bibles, which you say has no authority, and if we really want to know what is authoritative, we must either learn the languages ourselves or find these translators to get the real truth from them.

I admit being too simple. It seems to me that it is illogical for God, if he truly wants to save the world and then give us understanding about himself, not in person in a physical presence, but in a written testimony, to hide it in obscure languages that few can comprehend.

Case in point; you claim to speak this Greek and I do not and we have a completely different concept of God and what he is like.

Here is a prayer of the apostle Paul, the apostle to the gentiles, concerning the desire we completely understand God. See what you think about it.

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard [it], do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;


11 Strengthened with all might, according to his glorious power, unto all patience and longsuffering with joyfulness;
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated [us] into the kingdom of his dear Son:
14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, [even] the forgiveness of sins:
15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

God had to hide the grave of Moses lest people worshiped it. We need to learn to pivots when God pivots. Thinks he translates are always better.

 

[Logos1560]

I admit being too simple.

Your human KJV-only reasoning is not near as simple as you try to suggest. It has been pointed out and demonstrated how some of your very own statements are inconsistent, would conflict, or contradict.

Inconsistent or conflicting claims are not simple and are not logical, and they may involve use of double standards. As soundly pointed out, you refuse to apply the exact same measures/standards consistently and justly. Your human reasoning in effect shows partiality to one exclusive group of Church of England priests in 1611.

Believers are not encouraged to be simple-minded. Believers are encouraged to be wise or to seek the wisdom of God. The simple are more easily misled and deceived by inconsistent human reasoning or the opinions of men than those who are wise or prudent.

"by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple" (Rom. 16:18)

The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. (Prov. 14:15)

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? (Prov. 1:22)

A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished (Prov. 22:3)

 

[JD731]

Your human KJV-only reasoning is not near as simple as you try to suggest. It has been pointed out and demonstrated how some of your very own statements are inconsistent, would conflict, or contradict.

Inconsistent or conflicting claims are not simple and are not logical, and they may involve use of double standards. As soundly pointed out, you refuse to apply the exact same measures/standards consistently and justly. Your human reasoning in effect shows partiality to one exclusive group of Church of England priests in 1611.

Believers are not encouraged to be simple-minded. Believers are encouraged to be wise or to seek the wisdom of God. The simple are more easily misled and deceived by inconsistent human reasoning or the opinions of men than those who are wise or prudent.

"by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple" (Rom. 16:18)

The simple believeth every word: but the prudent man looketh well to his going. (Prov. 14:15)

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? (Prov. 1:22)

A prudent man foreseeth the evil, and hideth himself: but the simple pass on, and are punished (Prov. 22:3)

Are those quotes from the KJV or the Geneva 1560?

 

[JD731]

I wanted to quote the Geneva but cannot find it on line.

 

[37818]

I wanted to quote the Geneva but cannot find it on line.

If you have an Android phone you can go to the MySword Bible app web site and download the app. It comes with the KJV and the Strong's Hebrew and Greek numbering system. The Geneva Bible is an available Bible among others such as Tyndale's Bible.

Geneva Bible, Mark 15:42, ". . . And nowe when the night was come (because it was the day of the preparation that is before the Sabbath) . . . ."

MySword - Free Android Bible

 

[Logos1560]

Are those quotes from the KJV or the Geneva 1560?

The quotes are from the KJV. All my scripture references and any quotations are to verses in the KJV or from the KJV unless I identify them otherwise.

 

[Conan]

I wanted to quote the Geneva but cannot find it on line.

Right column.

Textus Receptus Bibles

 

[JD731]

If you have an Android phone you can go to the MySword Bible app web site and download the app. It comes with the KJV and the Strong's Hebrew and Greek numbering system. The Geneva Bible is an available Bible among others such as Tyndale's Bible.

Geneva Bible, Mark 15:42, ". . . And nowe when the night was come (because it was the day of the preparation that is before the Sabbath) . . . ."

MySword - Free Android Bible

Thanks. I was wondering if in their original translation they maintained the names of God by using the capitol letters like the KJV. I know that careless copiers do not pay very close attention to details so one cannot know by just going to any website where there is a copy. Case in point, the KJV in the Bible Gateway site does not always designate the names of God and so they are not reliable copies. A KJV bible believer must be very careful when quoting from their website.

For instance, The member of the Godhead and savior that we know by the name of Jesus (Jehovah is salvation) Christ (anointed one) is known in both testaments by the title "the word of the Lord." He is identical to the person who is called the Lord GOD, or Adonay Jehovah. He is revealed that way in Gen 15, which is in the beginning of the 3rd millennium and at the same time and context that Abraham is designated as the father of the faith because he was the first to believe about the miraculous son of God who would be typified in the miraculous birth of Isaac nine months later.

I actually make it a practice of looking at the root words the KJV translators were translating and have been greatly benefited from it over the years. Because of it I sometimes understand more than my teachers but having said that, in all my years I have never found a single word in my KJV that I thought needed changing. Nothing is inspired except the words. Not even the apostles and prophets.

Psa 119:97 MEM. O how love I thy law! it [is] my meditation all the day.
98 Thou through thy commandments hast made me wiser than mine enemies: for they are ever with me.
99 I have more understanding than all my teachers: for thy testimonies are my meditation.
100 I understand more than the ancients, because I keep thy precepts.
101 I have refrained my feet from every evil way, that I might keep thy word.
102 I have not departed from thy judgments: for thou hast taught me.
103 How sweet are thy words unto my taste! yea, sweeter than honey to my mouth!
104 Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.

 

[JD731]

Right column.

Textus Receptus Bibles

Thanks Conan. That is a blessing.

 

[JD731]

Here is what I found in the right column, Conan. First the 1611 KJV:

15:1 After these things, the word of the LORD came vnto Abram in a vision, saying; Feare not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.
15:2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou giue me, seeing I goe childlesse? and the steward of my house is this Eliezer of Damascus.
15:3 And Abram said; Behold, to mee thou hast given no seed: and loe, one borne in my house is mine heire.
15:4 And behold, the word of the LORD came vnto him, saying; This shall not be thine heire: but he that shall come foorth out of thy owne bowels, shalbe thine heire.
15:5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Looke now towards heauen, and tell the starres, if thou be able to number them. And hee said vnto him, So shall thy seed be.
15:6 And he beleeued in the LORD; and hee counted it to him for righteousnesse.
15:7 And he said vnto him; I am the LORD that brought thee out of Ur of the Caldees, to give thee this land, to inherit it.
15:8 And he said, Lord GOD, whereby shal I know that I shall inherit it?

Here is the Geneva;

15:1 After these things, the worde of the Lord came vnto Abram in a vision, saying, Feare not, Abram, I am thy buckler, and thine exceeding great reward.
15:2 And Abram said, O Lord God, what wilt thou giue me, seeing I goe childlesse, and the steward of mine house is this Eliezer of Damascus?
15:3 Againe Abram saide, Beholde, to me thou hast giuen no seede: wherefore loe, a seruant of mine house shalbe mine heire.
15:4 Then beholde, the worde of the Lord came vnto him, saying, This man shall not be thine heire, but one that shall come out of thine owne bowels, he shalbe thine heire.
15:5 Moreouer he brought him forth and said, Looke vp nowe vnto heauen, and tell ye starres, if thou be able to number them: and he said vnto him, So shall thy seede be.
15:6 And Abram beleeued the Lord, and he counted that to him for righteousnesse.
15:7 Againe he saide vnto him, I am the Lord, that brought thee out of Vr of the Caldees, to giue thee this land to inherite it.
15:8 And he said, O Lord God, whereby shall I knowe that I shall inherite it?

This is a major difference for the careful student of the word of God. This omission will be true all through the OT scriptures. It will be maintained by the KJV. This alone makes the KJV better than the Geneva, but there are other things.

 

[JD731]

The quotes are from the KJV. All my scripture references and any quotations are to verses in the KJV or from the KJV unless I identify them otherwise.

Why are you not quoting the Geneva if you think it is better?

 

[37818]

I was wondering if in their original translation they maintained the names of God by using the capitol letters like the KJV. I know that careless copiers do not pay very close attention to details so one cannot know by just going to any website where there is a copy. Case in point, the KJV in the Bible Gateway site does not always designate the names of God and so they are not reliable copies. A KJV bible believer must be very careful when quoting from their website.

Well the earlier Geneva Bible didn't.
Exodus 3:13-15, ". . . Then Moses said vnto God, Behold, when I shall come vnto the children of Israel, and shall say vnto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me vnto you: if they say vnto me, What is his Name? What shall I say vnto them? And God answered Moses, I Am That I Am. Also he said, Thus shalt thou say vnto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me vnto you. And God spake further vnto Moses, Thus shalt thou say vnto the children of Israel, The Lorde God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Izhak, and the God of Iaakob hath sent me vnto you: this is my Name for euer, and this is my memoriall vnto all ages. . . ."

 

[Conan]

Thanks Conan. That is a blessing.

Here is another site that actually has the original images of the Bibles themselves instead of (usually) a typed transcription.

Bibles-Online.net | Ancient Bibles Online | Brought to you by GreatSite.com

 

[Logos1560]

Why are you not quoting the Geneva if you think it is better?

I did not claim that it was better in every rendering and in every verse.

My clear point was and is that the 1560 Geneva Bible is better and more accurate than the 1611 edition of the KJV in at least some places. You keep dodging and avoiding that fact. That fact is a serious, major problem for inconsistent, human KJV-only reasoning.

 

[JD731]

Here is another site that actually has the original images of the Bibles themselves instead of (usually) a typed transcription.

Bibles-Online.net | Ancient Bibles Online | Brought to you by GreatSite.com

Awesome. Thanks again.