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Can a Person be a Pastor (Shepherd) without being an Elder?

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Ephesians 4:11 provides various offices to equip the church. One of these is pastor (shepherd).

Ephesians 4:11-14
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes.

1 Timothy 3:1-7 gives the office of Overseer (Elder) as does Titus 1:5-9.

The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

Titus 1:5-9
This is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained into order, and appoint elders in every town as I directed you— if anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife, and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, as God’s steward, must be above reproach. He must not be arrogant or quick-tempered or a drunkard or violent or greedy for gain, but hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined. He must hold firm to the trustworthy word as taught, so that he may be able to give instruction in sound doctrine and also to rebuke those who contradict it.

Certainly an elder must have the gift of teaching and an elder will be a shepherd.

However, can a person be a shepherd (a separate role as seen in Ephesians 4:11) and not be an elder, just as a person can be an evangelist and not be an elder?

Does the role of shepherd require the ability to teach? Can you be a non-teaching shepherd in a church?
 

Reformed

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Our Presbyterian brethren have two types of elders: a teaching elder and a ruling elder. Teaching elders are typically pastors. Ruling elders are not the main preachers but they do need to be "able to teach". In Baptist churches, we do not use the term "ruling elder". However, the pastor fulfills that teaching elder role. 1 Timothy 3:2 does state that elders must be able to teach. Consider that elders (presbuteros, oi) are responsible for the spiritual oversight of the church. They are protectors of the flock. Ergo, they must know the Word. They should also be able to teach it, albeit not necessarily from the pulpit.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
Our Presbyterian brethren have two types of elders: a teaching elder and a ruling elder. Teaching elders are typically pastors. Ruling elders are not the main preachers but they do need to be "able to teach". In Baptist churches, we do not use the term "ruling elder". However, the pastor fulfills that teaching elder role. 1 Timothy 3:2 does state that elders must be able to teach. Consider that elders (presbuteros, oi) are responsible for the spiritual oversight of the church. They are protectors of the flock. Ergo, they must know the Word. They should also be able to teach it, albeit not necessarily from the pulpit.
Alright. Help me see how you answered the question because it seems you are saying that a pastor must be an elder and thus must be able to teach.
 

Reformed

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Alright. Help me see how you answered the question because it seems you are saying that a pastor must be an elder and thus must be able to teach.
A pastor is an elder and must be able to teach. Forgive me for not making that clear in my previous post.
 

Reformed

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
So you can exchange the word "shepherd" in Ephesians 4:11 to "elder" and it changes nothing in the text?
In Ephesians 4, Paul is describing the offices of the local church. It is interesting that he writes, "ποιμένας καὶ διδασκάλους", linking the word for shepherd and the word for teach. So, shepherd and teacher are not separate offices. The shepherd is also a teacher. From a logical standpoint, it only makes sense. The local shepherd follows the example of the Great Shepherd, who certainly was a teacher.
 

atpollard

Well-Known Member
In Ephesians 4, Paul is describing the offices of the local church. It is interesting that he writes, "ποιμένας καὶ διδασκάλους", linking the word for shepherd and the word for teach. So, shepherd and teacher are not separate offices. The shepherd is also a teacher. From a logical standpoint, it only makes sense. The local shepherd follows the example of the Great Shepherd, who certainly was a teacher.
I think that it is a distinction worth noting that in Timothy, men appoint elders for the good of the local congregation, however in Ephesians it is a WORK OF GOD that is being described (only God has the authority to appoint an Apostle or a Prophet …).

So all Shepherds may be Elders, but not all Elders are Shepherds. ;)
 

JesusFan

Well-Known Member
I think that it is a distinction worth noting that in Timothy, men appoint elders for the good of the local congregation, however in Ephesians it is a WORK OF GOD that is being described (only God has the authority to appoint an Apostle or a Prophet …).

So all Shepherds may be Elders, but not all Elders are Shepherds. ;)
Every Pastor is an Elder, in many Baptist churches would be the senior Elder
 

Dr. Bob

Administrator
Administrator
The office of "Elder" =
POIMEN (Ephesians 4:11; I Peter 5:12) "Shepherd/Pastor of the Flock"
PRESBUTEROS (I Peter 5:1; Hebrews 14:23) "President of the Assembly"
EPISCOPOS (Philippians 1:1; I Peter 5:12) "Superintendent of a Work Force"
DIDASKOLOS (Romans 2:20; I Corinthians 12:28) "Teacher of the School"
KERUX (I Timothy 2:7; II Timothy 1:11; II Peter 2:5) "Preacher of the Congregation"

Churches could have many in the office of "Elder", the leadership position in the local church, each gifted and responsible for aspects of local church ministry differently.

In a church we founded, I was the "teaching" elder, involving teaching/preaching the Word. Another elder took care of all finances and physical/material needs of the church. Another oversaw the visitation, calling, counseling. We worked together as a team.

"Pastoring" is just one part of the work of an elder, and most of that is not "pulpit"-related. Sadly, many Baptist churches use the word "pastor" (used only ONE TIME in the NT) as if that is the be-all/end-all of ministers. Reality is "elder" is used more than TWENTY times to speak of leaders of local church.
 

AustinC

Well-Known Member
A pastor must be an elder. Okay. That means no unmarried pastors, no pastors without children. No pastors who cannot teach or preach.

If a church has no elders, only a church council and deacons, who, then, functions as the elders?
There are a vast array of Baptist churches with no elders. What does anyone make of this?
 

Reformed

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
A pastor must be an elder. Okay. That means no unmarried pastors, no pastors without children. No pastors who cannot teach or preach.

If a church has no elders, only a church council and deacons, who, then, functions as the elders?
There are a vast array of Baptist churches with no elders. What does anyone make of this?

Is Titus 1:6 a positive command that a pastor/elder must be married? That point is debatable.

The fact that many Baptist churches do not have elders is a failure to properly understand the offices of the church.
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
A pastor must be an elder. Okay. That means no unmarried pastors, no pastors without children. No pastors who cannot teach or preach.

If a church has no elders, only a church council and deacons, who, then, functions as the elders?
There are a vast array of Baptist churches with no elders. What does anyone make of this?

I became the interm pastor of a church with only 3 women!
So I became a "that is the be-all/end-all of ministers."

I am a currently a pastor of a very small church - with two men (other than myself) and neither
is qualified to be an elder or deacon. One of the men is the treasure -otherwise I have had to
do just about everything.
The former pastor was there for 10 years - as pastor - and I use the term very loosely - did not pastor
that church - the people are ignorant about many things -he ran several people off -and things are in
bad conditions. but they want to continue.. I have been there two years -and I still need to give the milk
of the Word.
 
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