Featured Is God not sovereign in a Christan's life after we are saved?

Silverhair, your constant ignorance of the verses surrounding what you quote shows your open dishonesty with God's word. Look at the whole of Ephesians 1 and know you are foolishly wrong.
Look at the whole of Romans 10 and know you are foolishly wrong.
But, you know that looking at an entire passage utterly destroys your argument, so you deceptively avoid such things.
You have shown every reader at the BB your deception and only those who worship men over God will follow your teaching.

 

Because he says a man must first believe the gospel to be saved, he is "foolishly ignorant"?

Conceit truly is limitless.

 

Greetings,

Yes, I would agree, for me to know about "Calvinist theology" is a waist of time, that is why I deny I am a Calvinist, because I've never read "Calvin's Teachings". I just desire to stick with the Lord's Word as revealed by the Holy Spirit.
And that is ALL I need to know......too many men have way too many personal "assumed thoughts and fleshy human philosophical reasoning, not inspired by the Holy Spirit.

Mat_10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

1Co 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Co 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Col 1:9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
Col 1:10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

I am NOT hinting that is you in any manner, I am saying that from a Broad view from the many experiences I have heard via, video's, writings, or personal dealings.

The Lord bless you.....
In His Love....

 

So God ordains (predestines) whatsoever comes to pass making His the author of our each and every sin. Then after He saves us, He still causes us to sin so grace may abound even more? As Paul might say, "May it never be."

 

Because he says man causes God to act.
How is it that you fail to see what he says? Do you also exalt in man causing God to react and thus save?

 

Man had free will once in a garden and look what it cost him... Another has been given the will of God to carry out in our room and stead to eternally save, then... Question show me a dead man that has free will?... Because until the Holy Spirit alone regenerates you... IOW quickens you, we are as dead as a corpse... You're are not Heaven bound by anything you did, but what Jesus Christ, the Son Of God your substitute did!... By the WILL of God alone, you were given to him to save... You don't will to get saved, you carry the will of God because you are saved, daily... For some reason those who question election hate this scripture... Brother Glen

Ephesians 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Btw... God is Sovereign before you were saved, after you were save and since you've been saved!

 

I read …

… and disagreed that was “the reality, when plumbed”: so I ‘plumbed’ the reality as THIS Calvinist saw it.

 

I am a Calvinist and I do not believe that.

 

Greetings,

AMEN!!!

 

Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
Eph 1:4 just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love
Eph 1:5 He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
Eph 1:6 to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
Eph 1:7 In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace
Eph 1:8 which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight
Eph 1:9 He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him
Eph 1:10 with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him
Eph 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,
Eph 1:12 to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory.
Eph 1:13 In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God's own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Do you see a common thread here. All things are in or for Him. God foreknows all that will freely trust in His son. You just refuse to see that. Take of the blinders.

Rom 10:5 For Moses writes that the man who practices the righteousness which is based on law shall live by that righteousness.
Rom 10:6 But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows: "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?' (that is, to bring Christ down),
Rom 10:7 or 'WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?' (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead)."
Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?
Rom 10:15 How will they preach unless they are sent? Just as it is written, "HOW BEAUTIFUL ARE THE FEET OF THOSE WHO BRING GOOD NEWS OF GOOD THINGS!"
Rom 10:16 However, they did not all heed the good news; for Isaiah says, "LORD, WHO HAS BELIEVED OUR REPORT?"
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Rom 10:18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."
Rom 10:19 But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, "I WILL MAKE YOU JEALOUS BY THAT WHICH IS NOT A NATION, BY A NATION WITHOUT UNDERSTANDING WILL I ANGER YOU."
Rom 10:20 And Isaiah is very bold and says, "I WAS FOUND BY THOSE WHO DID NOT SEEK ME, I BECAME MANIFEST TO THOSE WHO DID NOT ASK FOR ME."
Rom 10:21 But as for Israel He says, "ALL THE DAY LONG I HAVE STRETCHED OUT MY HANDS TO A DISOBEDIENT AND OBSTINATE PEOPLE."

Faith in Christ Jesus is the requirement for salvation. How can you not see that?

 

It isn’t about “control’ at all. It’s about the influence of God Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth or being grieved when we falter.

Again, people have human will that is influenced by a wide variety of factors. The closer you walk with God, the closer you are to the mind of Christ. The closer you are to the mind of Christ, the closer your human will will align with the will of God.

People make choices and I’ve never said otherwise. We are not “robots” that are programmed to perform. We are not “free” to always choose good over evil because of the various things which influence our decisions.

Unless God Holy Spirit intervenes in a person’s life, they are not able to come to Christ in faith because of the influence of their sin nature. Their human will must be freed from that influence of sin.

Those that walk by the Spirit are led by the Spirit. Scripture doesn’t say those that walk by the Spirit are “controlled” by the Spirit.

peace to you

 

You finished your presentation with this assertion: "Faith in Christ Jesus is the requirement for salvation."
You, therefore, believe that human faith causes God to save a person.
Neither of the passages say such a thing, but you certainly project that idea onto the passages.

But, if you truly believe human faith causes God to save, you must be consistent and say that human lack of faith causes God to not save.
So, you are entirely responsible for your salvation. If you display even the slightest lack of faith...you are damned to hell. But, if you restore your faith, then God must restore your salvation.
Indeed, your salvation is entirely connected to what you do with your faith. You will live on a roller-coaster of feelings where you are saved one moment then damned the next, only to restore yourself and damn yourself in repeated cycles over your lifetime. The result of such a belief is a bi-polar mix of pride in accomplishment and utter despair in failure.
But, that is what you desire to read into those passages so I can only say, "good luck with that." I shall now consider you to be a Nazarene or Wesleyan.

 

While you say this, you at the same time deny what scripture says when you limit who can be guided into all truth. Your theology says it is only a select few that are picked out, your so called "elect" before the foundation of the world. Yet what does the bible say about God desire
1Ti 2:3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
and God has made it clear that anyone can trust in His son for salvation
Joh 3:14 "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up;
Joh 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

Just as you say the Holy Spirit does influence people, He does not force people.
Joh 16:8 "And He, when He comes, will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment;
Joh 16:9 concerning sin, because they do not believe in Me;

Notice He convicts the world not just a select few. I do not deny that man is influenced by many factors but I also do not deny that man has a free will so as to trust the gospel message and turn to God in faith. That is what calvinism says man can not do. The bible would disagree with that view
Joh_12:46 I have come as a light into the world, that whoever believes in Me should not abide in darkness.
Act_2:21 AND IT SHALL COME TO PASS THAT WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED.'

The bible does not restrict those that can call on God so why does calvinism?

There is a big difference between what your TULIP or what is called the DoG says and what you just said in your post.

Under your TULIP the only ones that are influenced to believe or come closer to God are those that have been picked out and the rest are left out of any possible chance to do so.

The Gospel call in calvinism is not a well meant call or sincere offer. Only those that are included in the Unconditional Election will partake of the Limited Atonement and will be drawn to God by His Irresistible Grace. So all men do not have an equal chance to know or trust in God. The calvinist theology precludes this, but they just do not want to acknowledge that fact.

And if you, as calvinists, followed that idea then you would agree that the Holy Spirit can and does in fact allow anyone to trust in God of their own free will but you always put limits on those that will be influenced. If God says He desires all and whoever will then I have to ask who are you to say that only a select group can?

 

1) Did I use the term "free will?" Nope as the biblical doctrine is limited autonomous will. We can choose within the bounds allowed by God. If He hardens our heart, as in Romans 11, we cannot afterwords choose to trust in Christ. However, He allows the many to hear the gospel, for many are invited.

2) All the people described as seeking God in scripture were "dead in their trespasses and sins."

Exodus 33:7, 2 Samuel 21:1, 2 Chronicles 14:7, 2 Chronicles 15:4, 2 Chronicles 17:4, 2 Chronicles 26:5, Ezra 8:23,
Psalms 34:4, Acts of the Apostles 13:7 and Hebrews 12:17 ​

3) Calvinism seeks to redefine being dead spiritually not to mean separated from God due to unholiness, but also having the affect of total spiritual inability. But as item 2 above demonstrates, the assertion is just another false doctrine of Calvinism.

4) Did anyone say the saved are "heaven bound" by something they did? Nope, salvation depends on God alone, Romans 9:16

5) Did anyone say the lost are not saved by what Jesus Christ, the Son of God did according to the will of God? Nope

6) Did anyone say that each and every individual saved was given by God to Christ for salvation? Nope

7) Of course some of the lost "will to be saved" just read Romans 9:16.

8) Did anyone question that God's election of individuals for salvation was not His gift of love toward each individual, who did not merit or earn salvation. Nope.

Basically this post provides yet another strawman argument loaded with implied false charges.

 

God caused us to be saved:
1 Peter 1:3-5
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you, who by God’s power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Let's just put the notion that, man's faith caused God to act, to bed. Man has no faith to believe until God causes us to be born again.

 

Yet another attempt to present false doctrine by a Calvinist.

Did anyone say our faith caused God to save us? Nope - that claim is an outrageous falsehood. Salvation depends on God alone, Romans 9:16.

Can a person have faith before they are born again? Yes, just read about the second and third soils of Matthew 13.

These Calvinist posters are allowed to post one falsehood after another without providing quotes or scripture. Note that the above quoted scripture does not say the faith came after being born anew. Calvinism reads that unbiblical falsehood into the text.

 

Reformed, I have given you credit for some intelligence but when you write things like this I have to question my assessment. Your logic is questionable to say the least.

You actually had one thing correct in your comment "human faith causes God to save, you must be consistent and say that human lack of faith causes God to not save." You my just be starting to understand free will.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;

The rest of your post is just your twisted logic. You still have not grasped the idea that God saves those that believe. The condition for salvation is faith in Christ Jesus. God saved me because of my trust in His risen son. Do I question that I am saved NO do I sin YES but then again so did Paul.
Rom 7:15 For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
So are you saying that Paul was not saved?

Do I question my faith by times,YES, does that mean that I am lost, NO it does not. If your premise were true then it would be my faith that saved me which it did not. God saved me because I trusted.

 

You just refuse to believe scripture. For you "If we confess" has to be read as when I make you confess. God causes us to be born again because we believe in His son. You are struggling to hold on to your theology but the bible is showing you that your view is wrong. Open your eyes to the truth of scripture.

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART"—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
Rom 10:10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."
Rom 10:12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him;
Rom 10:13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then will they call on Him in whom they have not believed? How will they believe in Him whom they have not heard? And how will they hear without a preacher?

These and other verses have been shown to you many times but you just keep dancing away from them and throw out random verses that really do not support your view.

 

The Bible says we are elect, predestined before the foundation of the world.

peace to you

 

Of course it does. At the bare minimum salvation is restricted to those who hear the name of Jesus so they can “call upon the name of the Lord” per the passage you quoted.

This directly contradicts your stated belief that “many are saved having never heard the gospel”.

Personally, nothing would make me happier than if every person that was ever conceived in the womb ended up with God in heaven. I would never cease praising God for His mercy.

Would you be happy if only the elect ended up with God in heaven? Or would you never cease to chastise God for not living up to your standards of fairness?

peace to you