The Received Text vs the Majority Text

[SavedByGrace]

Then you should know without asking.

About what?

 

[JesusFan]

About what?

Who in textual criticism see both the Critical and Majority Greek texts superior to the TR!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Who in textual criticism see both the Critical and Majority Greek texts superior to the TR!

superior based on what?

 

[Van]

The KJV is translated from the Received Text. Modern Bibles not translated from the Critical Text are translated from the Majority Texts. GES prefers the Majority Text. I think I'm correct.

Which text is correct? Free Grace theology seems to require a rendering different then "whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood". Jesus said, "he that believeth on me hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation." I think I'm quoting it right. How much do we have to know to be saved?

I don't want to debate. I just want to learn and I hope free gracers will participate. Thank you.

Here is a Majority Text rendering of Romans 3:25 from the World English Bible:

25 whom God sent to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God’s forbearance;

And here is the so called Received Text rendering of Romans 3:25 from the KJV:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;​

As you can see, both texts are just about the same for this verse, as is the Critical Text.

Now as to "Free Grace Theology" lets look first at its description:

Free grace is a Christian soteriological view that anyone can receive eternal life the moment they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). Free Grace advocates believe that good works are not the condition to merit (as with Catholics),[maintain (as with Arminians), or to prove (as with Calvinists) eternal life, but rather are part of discipleship and the basis for receiving eternal rewards.

The grace (gift) of eternal life is said to be free as the only condition for receiving it is initial faith. This view distinguishes between salvation and discipleship – the call to believe in Christ as Savior and to receive the gift of eternal life, and the call to follow Christ and become an obedient disciple, respectively. From Wikipedia​

Thus as described above, FGT is unbiblical because:
1) People are not saved automatically when they believe, but only when God credits their faith as righteousness.
2) While belief that Jesus is indeed God the Son is essential, faith must also include belief in the One who sent His Son.
3) Post salvation ministry as an Ambassador of Christ does provide assurance of salvation and if effective in God's eyes provides the basis for earning additional rewards.
4) The call to believe includes the call to commit and be devoted to Christ, with both part of God's basis for crediting faith as righteousness.

 

[Van]

Who in textual criticism see both the Critical and Majority Greek texts superior to the TR!

LOL...
Those that chose to base their translation on the Critical Text or the Majority Text, and not on the Received Text, saw at least one of those versions as superior to the TR.

 

[Guido]

Here is a Majority Text rendering of Romans 3:25 from the World English Bible:

25 whom God sent to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, for a demonstration of his righteousness through the passing over of prior sins, in God’s forbearance;

And here is the so called Received Text rendering of Romans 3:25 from the KJV:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;​

As you can see, both texts are just about the same for this verse, as is the Critical Text.

Now as to "Free Grace Theology" lets look first at its description:

Free grace is a Christian soteriological view that anyone can receive eternal life the moment they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). Free Grace advocates believe that good works are not the condition to merit (as with Catholics),[maintain (as with Arminians), or to prove (as with Calvinists) eternal life, but rather are part of discipleship and the basis for receiving eternal rewards.

The grace (gift) of eternal life is said to be free as the only condition for receiving it is initial faith. This view distinguishes between salvation and discipleship – the call to believe in Christ as Savior and to receive the gift of eternal life, and the call to follow Christ and become an obedient disciple, respectively. From Wikipedia​

Thus as described above, FGT is unbiblical because:
1) People are not saved automatically when they believe, but only when God credits their faith as righteousness.
2) While belief that Jesus is indeed God the Son is essential, faith must also include belief in the One who sent His Son.
3) Post salvation ministry as an Ambassador of Christ does provide assurance of salvation and if effective in God's eyes provides the basis for earning additional rewards.
4) The call to believe includes the call to commit and be devoted to Christ, with both part of God's basis for crediting faith as righteousness.

Well, you mind as well rip the book of John out of your Bible. It is evident that you have never read or understood it.

 

[Guido]

I'm sorry. I forgot I said I didn't want to debate.

 

[Deacon]

Very simply stated Free Grace theology is defined by the statement, faith alone, in Christ alone.
Believing Jesus work on the cross provides complete assurance of one’s salvation.
Works are a product of salvation and do not determine or assure salvation.


Van brings Romans 3:25 as the verse you might be concerned about.
Even without knowing any Greek you can see the TR and Critical text do not differ.

"ὃν προέθετο ὁ Θεὸς ἱλαστήριον, διὰ τῆς πίστεως, ἐν τῷ αὐτοῦ αἵματι, εἰς ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ διὰ τὴν πάρεσιν τῶν προγεγονότων ἁμαρτημάτων. Stephens TR​

"ὃν προέθετο ὁ θεὸς ἱλαστήριον ⸂διὰ [τῆς] πίστεως⸃ ἐν τῷ αὐτοῦ αἵματι εἰς ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ διὰ τὴν πάρεσιν τῶν προγεγονότων ἁμαρτημάτων NA28​

I’m not quite sure where Van’s final conclusions about Free Grace Theology originate (where he says they are unbiblical) but they are off base.

Rob

 

[Van]

Well, you might as well rip the book of John out of your Bible. It is evident that you have never read or understood it.

Well, I see you like to make up false charges and hurl them at those who post truth.

 

[Van]

Very simply stated Free Grace theology is defined by the statement, faith alone, in Christ alone.
Believing Jesus work on the cross provides complete assurance of one’s salvation.
Works are a product of salvation and do not determine or assure salvation.


Van brings Romans 3:25 as the verse you might be concerned about.
Even without knowing any Greek you can see the TR and Critical text do not differ.

"ὃν προέθετο ὁ Θεὸς ἱλαστήριον, διὰ τῆς πίστεως, ἐν τῷ αὐτοῦ αἵματι, εἰς ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ διὰ τὴν πάρεσιν τῶν προγεγονότων ἁμαρτημάτων. Stephens TR​

"ὃν προέθετο ὁ θεὸς ἱλαστήριον ⸂διὰ [τῆς] πίστεως⸃ ἐν τῷ αὐτοῦ αἵματι εἰς ἔνδειξιν τῆς δικαιοσύνης αὐτοῦ διὰ τὴν πάρεσιν τῶν προγεγονότων ἁμαρτημάτων NA28​

I’m not quite sure where Van’s final conclusions about Free Grace Theology originate (where he says they are unbiblical) but they are off base.

Rob

Well I am sure you did not address the four points I specifically made concerning the unbiblical nature of FGT as described.

 

[37818]

Well I am sure you did not address the four points I specifically made concerning the unbiblical nature of FGT as described.

I hadn't read that particular post.
Could you please summarize those four points. And maybe a link or location of your post. Thanks.

 

[Van]

I hadn't read that particular post.
Could you please summarize those four points. And maybe a link or location of your post. Thanks.

Bottom of post 24 on this page of this thread.

 

[37818]

Now as to "Free Grace Theology" lets look first at its description:

Free grace is a Christian soteriological view that anyone can receive eternal life the moment they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). Free Grace advocates believe that good works are not the condition to merit (as with Catholics),[maintain (as with Arminians), or to prove (as with Calvinists) eternal life, but rather are part of discipleship and the basis for receiving eternal rewards.

The grace (gift) of eternal life is said to be free as the only condition for receiving it is initial faith. This view distinguishes between salvation and discipleship – the call to believe in Christ as Savior and to receive the gift of eternal life, and the call to follow Christ and become an obedient disciple, respectively. From Wikipedia

Thus as described above, FGT is unbiblical because:
1) People are not saved automatically when they believe, but only when God credits their faith as righteousness.
2) While belief that Jesus is indeed God the Son is essential, faith must also include belief in the One who sent His Son.
3) Post salvation ministry as an Ambassador of Christ does provide assurance of salvation and if effective in God's eyes provides the basis for earning additional rewards.
4) The call to believe includes the call to commit and be devoted to Christ, with both part of God's basis for crediting faith as righteousness.

1) People are not saved automatically when they believe, but only when God credits their faith as righteousness.

And when does God say He does that? Romans 4:5?

2) While belief that Jesus is indeed God the Son is essential, faith must also include belief in the One who sent His Son.

That makes no sense. How can one believe Him to be the Son without believing He was sent by the Father?

3) Post salvation ministry as an Ambassador of Christ does provide assurance of salvation and if effective in God's eyes provides the basis for earning additional rewards.

You need to show what you are referring to. WWW.STR.ORG ??

4) The call to believe includes the call to commit and be devoted to Christ, with both part of God's basis for crediting faith as righteousness.

Where is that in connection to Romans 4:5 or Ephesians 2:9?

 

[Van]

Now as to "Free Grace Theology" lets look first at its description:

Free grace is a Christian soteriological view that anyone can receive eternal life the moment they believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). Free Grace advocates believe that good works are not the condition to merit (as with Catholics),[maintain (as with Arminians), or to prove (as with Calvinists) eternal life, but rather are part of discipleship and the basis for receiving eternal rewards.

The grace (gift) of eternal life is said to be free as the only condition for receiving it is initial faith. This view distinguishes between salvation and discipleship – the call to believe in Christ as Savior and to receive the gift of eternal life, and the call to follow Christ and become an obedient disciple, respectively. From Wikipedia

Thus as described above, FGT is unbiblical because:
1) People are not saved automatically when they believe, but only when God credits their faith as righteousness.
2) While belief that Jesus is indeed God the Son is essential, faith must also include belief in the One who sent His Son.
3) Post salvation ministry as an Ambassador of Christ does provide assurance of salvation and if effective in God's eyes provides the basis for earning additional rewards.
4) The call to believe includes the call to commit and be devoted to Christ, with both part of God's basis for crediting faith as righteousness.

One post claimed he did not know where these conclusions originate.

1. Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25. These verses say we benefit (our justification) from God crediting our faith.
2. John 12:44
3. Hebrews 6:10-11
4. James 2:18-26​

 

[Van]

And when does God say He does that? Romans 4:5?
That makes no sense. How can one believe Him to be the Son without believing He was sent by the Father?
You need to show what you are referring to. WWW.STR.ORG ??

Where is that in connection to Romans 4:5 or Ephesians 2:9?

See post 34 above.

 

[37818]

1. Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25. These verses say we benefit (our justification) from God crediting our faith.

The sole requirement is that faith.

2. John 12:44

". . . Jesus cried and said, He that believeth on me, believeth not on me, but on him that sent me. . . ."

. . . How can one believe Him to be the Son without believing He was sent by the Father?

3. Hebrews 6:10-11

". . . For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: . . ."
So? Ephesians 2:8-10.

4. James 2:18-26

". . . Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. . . . For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also. . . ."
There is being justification by faith, Abraham in Genesis 15:6. And there is justification by works, Abraham, Genesis 22:12. Ephesians 2:8-10, 1 Corinthians 3:11-14, ". . . If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. . . ."

Again, you are not making sense.

Salvation is a gift.

 

[Van]

Personal incredulity is a fallacious argument against truth.
Romans 4 says our justification is the benefit of God crediting our faith as righteousness. Uncredited faith, like dead faith does not result in justification.
John 12:44 says our faith includes belief in the Father as well as the Son.
Hebrews 6:10-11 says our commitment and devotion to Christ provides "full assurance."
James 2:18-26 says our belief includes commitment and devotion that results in service to Christ.

 

[Van]

Does the person denying sense say uncredited faith results in justification? That is unbiblical nonsense. The lost do not save themselves by coming to faith, God saves them only if He credits their faith as righteousness. Automatic salvation is false doctrine.

Is faith limited to trusting in Christ, or does it include also trusting in the Father. According to Jesus, it includes trusting in the Father.

Does post salvation ministry provide full assurance?
Heb 6:11
And we desire that each one of you demonstrate the same diligence so as to realize the full assurance of hope until the end,

 

[37818]

Uncredited faith, . . .

Making stuff up.

 

[Van]

1 John 5:7 (YLT)
because three are who are testifying in the heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, and these -- the three -- are one;

Here we see the YLT translators put the last part of the verse in italics indicating an addition by the translators and not part of the inspired text.

Thus the KJV is a corruption.