Spiritual Truth and Doctrine II: The Meaning of Reconciliation

[Aaron]

@Silverhair said

So your saying that there is saved and extra saved.

Spiritual Truth and Doctrine

Paul is saying we are saved by Christ's life, in Romans 5:10 as he said we are saved by hope in Romans 8:24. He is talking about assurance, as I paraphrased in an earlier post in the cited thread: If His death saved us from wrath, how much more are we secured by His life.

But salvation from sin—salvation from wrath—is accomplished by His death. His blood quenched God's wrath. We are born of His travail.

Colossians 1:20-22, And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight.

From Vine's, the meaning of the word "to reconcile" apokatallasso:

"to reconcile completely" ... "to change from one condition to another," so as to remove all enmity and leave no impediment to unity and peace ... in Col 1:21 ... the change wrought in the individual believer from alienation and enmity, on account of evil works, to "reconciliation" with God; in Col 1:20 the word is used of the Divine purpose to "reconcile" through Christ "all things unto Himself... whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens," the basis of the change being the peace effected "through the blood of His Cross." It is the Divine purpose, on the ground of the work of Christ accomplished on the Cross, to bring the whole universe, except rebellious angels and unbelieving man, into full accord with the mind of God
​

Reconciliation is Salvation, and that was born of His death. And that's why we show His death till He returns.

 

[SavedByGrace]

And as followers of Jesus Christ, our duty is to try to get the whole world "reconciled" to God

Everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, certain that God is appealing through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.” (2 Cor 5)

 

[Van]

Since those who are born anew believers have our "Ministry of Reconciliation" it is indeed important to know what the Greek word actually means.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,
namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their wrongdoings against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.​

The Greek word translated as "reconciliation" is "katallagē (G2643) refers to the restoration of divine favor. Thus the removal of what God has against us (the wrath stored up against us due to our sin) and being restored to unity and togetherness with Christ.
This occurs not when Christ died, but when God puts us spiritually into Christ and we undergo the washing of regeneration. Once we are sealed in Christ with the Holy Spirit, our "reconciliation" is complete. (We are in Christ and Christ is in us!)

This Greek word (G2643) comes from the verb form (G2644) and this verb form is found in the following verses: Romans 5:10, 1 Cor. 7:11, 2 Cor. 5:18, 2 Cor. 5:19, and 2 Corinthians 5:20. And as indicated above, the noun form is found in four verses, Romans 5:11, Romans 11:15, 2 Corinthians 5:18 and 5:19. (Note both forms are found in 2 Corinthians 5:18 and in 5:19.)

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair said

Spiritual Truth and Doctrine

Paul is saying we are saved by Christ's life, in Romans 5:10 as he said we are saved by hope in Romans 8:24. He is talking about assurance, as I paraphrased in an earlier post in the cited thread: If His death saved us from wrath, how much more are we secured by His life.

But salvation from sin—salvation from wrath—is accomplished by His death. His blood quenched God's wrath. We are born of His travail.

Colossians 1:20-22, And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled in the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight.

From Vine's, the meaning of the word "to reconcile" apokatallasso:

"to reconcile completely" ... "to change from one condition to another," so as to remove all enmity and leave no impediment to unity and peace ... in Col 1:21 ... the change wrought in the individual believer from alienation and enmity, on account of evil works, to "reconciliation" with God; in Col 1:20 the word is used of the Divine purpose to "reconcile" through Christ "all things unto Himself... whether things upon the earth, or things in the heavens," the basis of the change being the peace effected "through the blood of His Cross." It is the Divine purpose, on the ground of the work of Christ accomplished on the Cross, to bring the whole universe, except rebellious angels and unbelieving man, into full accord with the mind of God
​

Reconciliation is Salvation, and that was born of His death. And that's why we show His death till He returns.

If we are saved by the death of Christ Jesus and we know that God the Father did "reconcile all things to Himself, by Him {Christ Jesus}" then you would have to be promoting universalism.

While reconciliation is universal salvation is not. Reconciliation touches the whole human race. Salvation is limited to the few who believe, for salvation depends on faith and belief.
A person may stand before God with every sin forgiven and blotted out, but if he is still in Adam then death rules over him. There is no hope of resurrection.

Reconcile, Reconciliation
A. Verbs.
1. katallasso (G2644) properly denotes "to change, exchange" (especially of money); hence, of persons, "to change from enmity to friendship, to reconcile." With regard to the relationship between God and man, the use of this and connected words shows that primarily "reconciliation" is what God accomplishes, exercising His grace towards sinful man on the ground of the death of Christ in propitiatory sacrifice under the judgment due to sin, 2Co_5:19, where both the verb and the noun are used (cf. No. 2, in Col_1:21). By reason of this men in their sinful condition and alienation from God are invited to be "reconciled" to Him; that is to say, to change their attitude, and accept the provision God has made, whereby their sins can be remitted and they themselves be justified in His sight in Christ. Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

Man has to exercise their free will and turn to Christ Jesus in faith so that their sins are forgiven.

 

[Darrell C]

While reconciliation is universal salvation is not. Reconciliation touches the whole human race.

If you don't mind, Silverhair, I'd like to address this statement.

Reconciliation is not universal. That God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself doesn't mean that Christ will reconcile the world as a whole, or that everyone will reconciled.


John 1:29

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


We know that Christ's Sacrifice is not going to be effective for those who reject Christ, right?


John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Again, we know that the world as a whole isn't going to be saved. Only those who trust in Christ as a result of the ministry of the Comforter will be born again.

Salvation "touches the whole human race" as well as does Reconciliation. That Reconciliation is, as the OP states, salvation itself. We cannot separate the two, having one reconciled and another saved. Just as we can't have one saved and not born again.

Hope that makes sense.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Man has to exercise their free will and turn to Christ Jesus in faith so that their sins are forgiven.

Forgive me, lol, just one more?

The question I would ask is this: do you think that free will is an inherent ability in the natural man, or are you speaking of free will exercised under the ministry of the Holy Ghost?

The natural man, according to Paul, doesn't have the ability to recognize or receive the spiritual things of God. However, I will agree that it is the person who makes the decision in that response to His ministry. He convicts of sin, and the person responds one way or another. That is not the free will that teaches men have the ability within themselves, apart from God, to hear the Gospel and respond. Their proclivity will be to reject the Gospel.

I view the Calvinist/Arminian dispute to be one of the worst results of the Reformation. People think they have to choose between those two options, and that is not the case. Scripture makes it clear that it is divine revelation by God to the heart of the person that allows them to be able to understand the truths God is imparting and it is under that ministry man has always been able to exercise their will.

As I said, the majority are going to respond with rejection. Christ always taught a many/few ratio.

Matthew 16 is a good place to see this. We see divine revelation of the truth of Jesus being the (promised/prophesied) Christ and that He is the Son of God. Flesh and blood did not reveal those truths to them, the Father did (Matthew 13-18). Then, in the very next breath from making this declaration, Peter rejects the Gospel (Matthew 16:20-23).

From Christ Himself.

So there is a third view that is supported by Scripture. That is, man can only exercise his will in matters spiritual when God is ministering those truths to their hearts.


God bless.

 

[Silverhair]

If you don't mind, Silverhair, I'd like to address this statement.

Reconciliation is not universal. That God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself doesn't mean that Christ will reconcile the world as a whole, or that everyone will reconciled.


John 1:29

The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


We know that Christ's Sacrifice is not going to be effective for those who reject Christ, right?


John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


Again, we know that the world as a whole isn't going to be saved. Only those who trust in Christ as a result of the ministry of the Comforter will be born again.

Salvation "touches the whole human race" as well as does Reconciliation. That Reconciliation is, as the OP states, salvation itself. We cannot separate the two, having one reconciled and another saved. Just as we can't have one saved and not born again.

Hope that makes sense.


God bless.

I will have to disagree with your view on this. Note Col 1:20 " and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross." By the propitiatory death of the Son we can now have peace with the Father. That is reconciliation but it is not salvation.
The atonement "In Scripture, the means by which sinners are reconciled and brought into a state of favor with God, after natural estrangement or enmity." Webster

When a person is saved by the grace of God because of their trust in the finished work of Christ Jesus, that is salvation. If ones does not believe they will not be saved even though Christ Jesus was the propitiation for their sins. You even quote Joh 3:17 ...but that the world through Him might be saved. But you seem to have overlooked Joh 3:16 ...that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. We had nothing to do with being reconciled to the Father but we have everything to do with being saved by the Father.

Your last paragraph leads to universalism. Salvation does not touch the whole human race, if it did then all would be saved and we know that does not happen.

 

[Silverhair]

Forgive me, lol, just one more?

The question I would ask is this: do you think that free will is an inherent ability in the natural man, or are you speaking of free will exercised under the ministry of the Holy Ghost?

The natural man, according to Paul, doesn't have the ability to recognize or receive the spiritual things of God. However, I will agree that it is the person who makes the decision in that response to His ministry. He convicts of sin, and the person responds one way or another. That is not the free will that teaches men have the ability within themselves, apart from God, to hear the Gospel and respond. Their proclivity will be to reject the Gospel.

I view the Calvinist/Arminian dispute to be one of the worst results of the Reformation. People think they have to choose between those two options, and that is not the case. Scripture makes it clear that it is divine revelation by God to the heart of the person that allows them to be able to understand the truths God is imparting and it is under that ministry man has always been able to exercise their will.

As I said, the majority are going to respond with rejection. Christ always taught a many/few ratio.

Matthew 16 is a good place to see this. We see divine revelation of the truth of Jesus being the (promised/prophesied) Christ and that He is the Son of God. Flesh and blood did not reveal those truths to them, the Father did (Matthew 13-18). Then, in the very next breath from making this declaration, Peter rejects the Gospel (Matthew 16:20-23).

From Christ Himself.

So there is a third view that is supported by Scripture. That is, man can only exercise his will in matters spiritual when God is ministering those truths to their hearts.


God bless.

By way of a short answer. God has enabled man to respond to various stimuli: Creation. The Gospel Message, The Conviction of the Holy Spirit, etc. Man can either accept or reject the information that he has. Most, as you have said, will reject it and be separated from God.

Augustine wrote “If a man comes unwillingly, he does not believe; if he does not believe, he does not come. For we do not run to Christ on our feet, but by faith; not with the movement of the body, but with the freewill of the heart.”

 

[Aaron]

And as followers of Jesus Christ, our duty is to try to get the whole world "reconciled" to God

Everything is from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: 19 That is, in Christ, God was reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed the message of reconciliation to us. 20 Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, certain that God is appealing through us. We plead on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God.” (2 Cor 5)

(Emphasis mine.)

The Gospel message is the message of reconciliation.

 

[Aaron]

If we are saved by the death of Christ Jesus and we know that God the Father did "reconcile all things to Himself, by Him {Christ Jesus}" then you would have to be promoting universalism.

Not at all. Paul speaks of the grafting of the Gentiles into the Abrahamic Covenant as the "reconciliation of the world."

Romans 11:12-15 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

So, you see in that passage that most Jews are cast away, so the phrase 'the reconciliation of the world' is not universalism. Most of the Gentiles won't be reconciled either. 'The reconciliation of the world' is merely the reconciliation of the elect from every nation. Reconciliation is not universal.

Reconciliation is the 'grafting in. ' Into what? Into Christ. The Olive Tree is the Seed (not seeds) of Abraham. And that is Christ. Galatians 3:16

But notice also Paul's rhetorical devices here. If the fall of the Jews is the riches of the world . . . how much more their fulness? If the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world . . . their receiving is life from the dead?

And so in Romans 5:10 If we were brought back into friendship with God by Christ's death, how much more is that friendship saved (or preserved) by His life?

For He ever liveth to make intercession for us.

 

[Darrell C]

By way of a short answer. God has enabled man to respond to various stimuli: Creation. The Gospel Message, The Conviction of the Holy Spirit, etc. Man can either accept or reject the information that he has. Most, as you have said, will reject it and be separated from God.

Augustine wrote “If a man comes unwillingly, he does not believe; if he does not believe, he does not come. For we do not run to Christ on our feet, but by faith; not with the movement of the body, but with the freewill of the heart.”

I would agree with all of this. However, I would suggest that it is only by faith in Christ that men can be reconciled to God and thus be born again through Eternal Union with God.

Meaning, the testimony of Creation and the internal witness all men are born with doesn't result in Eternal Redemption. It is only by turning in faith to Christ that men can be born again, because it is through His death that men are forgiven on an eternal basis (as opposed to temporary remission, Hebrews 10:1-14), and it is only through His Resurrection that men are now made alive in Him through eternal Union (which includes both the eternal indwelling of God and the believer being placed in Him).

We celebrate Communion to memorialize, not just His death, and not just His Resurrection, but both. The elements of salvation can be separated for the purpose of analysis, but they aren't separated in regards of the effectiveness.

As much as I hate to agree with the OP on anything, I have to agree when he states "reconciliation is salvation." Reconciliation takes place at the same time remission and the Eternal Indwelling take place. I agree man makes a decision, but I see God empowering them based on the fact He enlightens their minds. They have "free will" in that time of ministry, it is not an inherent ability they are born with. Apart from God's intervention, they would not even be able to recognize their need. So yes, they make a decision, but not because they have an inherent ability.


God bless.

P.S.-just kidding Aaron.

 

[Darrell C]

I will have to disagree with your view on this. Note Col 1:20 " and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross." By the propitiatory death of the Son we can now have peace with the Father. That is reconciliation but it is not salvation.
The atonement "In Scripture, the means by which sinners are reconciled and brought into a state of favor with God, after natural estrangement or enmity." Webster

When a person is saved by the grace of God because of their trust in the finished work of Christ Jesus, that is salvation. If ones does not believe they will not be saved even though Christ Jesus was the propitiation for their sins. You even quote Joh 3:17 ...but that the world through Him might be saved. But you seem to have overlooked Joh 3:16 ...that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. We had nothing to do with being reconciled to the Father but we have everything to do with being saved by the Father.

Your last paragraph leads to universalism. Salvation does not touch the whole human race, if it did then all would be saved and we know that does not happen.

I just don't see how you see universalism in my view, lol. Could you explain that?


God bless.

 

[JesusFan]

(Emphasis mine.)

The Gospel message is the message of reconciliation.

Between God and the elect in Christ!

 

[Darrell C]

Your last paragraph leads to universalism. Salvation does not touch the whole human race, if it did then all would be saved and we know that does not happen.

Looked back over this and feel I can explain what I meant in the first post better:

John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The purpose of this quote was to show that "the world" is being used in a statement one might consider applicable to a universal view. I do not. I simply presented this to show that just because the wording implies the "world would be saved through Him" we don't ignore what we are taught elsewhere that indicates only those that believe will be saved.


God bless.

 

[Silverhair]

Not at all. Paul speaks of the grafting of the Gentiles into the Abrahamic Covenant as the "reconciliation of the world."

Romans 11:12-15 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness? For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

So, you see in that passage that most Jews are cast away, so the phrase 'the reconciliation of the world' is not universalism. Most of the Gentiles won't be reconciled either. 'The reconciliation of the world' is merely the reconciliation of the elect from every nation. Reconciliation is not universal.

Reconciliation is the 'grafting in. ' Into what? Into Christ. The Olive Tree is the Seed (not seeds) of Abraham. And that is Christ. Galatians 3:16

But notice also Paul's rhetorical devices here. If the fall of the Jews is the riches of the world . . . how much more their fulness? If the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world . . . their receiving is life from the dead?

And so in Romans 5:10 If we were brought back into friendship with God by Christ's death, how much more is that friendship saved (or preserved) by His life?

For He ever liveth to make intercession for us.

You are making the mistake of thinking that reconciliation is salvation, it is not. Christ Jesus' death reconciled the world to the Father, through faith in the risen Christ we have salvation.

Aaron the way you have grabbed verses and read into them what you want to find is, to be blunt, mind boggling. I can not believe that you actually believe what you just wrote. It makes no sense at all.

 

[Silverhair]

As much as I hate to agree with the OP on anything, I have to agree when he states "reconciliation is salvation." Reconciliation takes place at the same time remission and the Eternal Indwelling take place. I agree man makes a decision, but I see God empowering them based on the fact He enlightens their minds. They have "free will" in that time of ministry, it is not an inherent ability they are born with. Apart from God's intervention, they would not even be able to recognize their need. So yes, they make a decision, but not because they have an inherent ability.

But salvation from sin—salvation from wrath—is accomplished by His death. His blood quenched God's wrath. We are born of His travail.

This is from the OP

Note what Aaron said here. He is saying that the death of Christ Jesus saves us, this is wrong. The death of Christ Jesus reconciled us with the Father. The atonement covered all sins, but if a person does not trust in the Son then they are still in their sin they are not saved. Paul is clear when he says:
Rom 5:10 For if when we were enemies
we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more,
having been reconciled,
we shall be saved by His life.
We are not saved because the Son died, it is because the Son lives.
1Co_15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

The OP has it wrong.

 

[Silverhair]

I just don't see how you see universalism in my view, lol. Could you explain that?


God bless.

"Salvation "touches the whole human race" as well as does Reconciliation. That Reconciliation is, as the OP states, salvation itself. We cannot separate the two, having one reconciled and another saved. Just as we can't have one saved and not born again."

Read Post # 16. If you maintain that what Aaron has said re reconciliation and salvation is correct then you are holding to universalism. He has people reconciled/saved at the atonement. Actually for the calvinist it is only the elect that are included in that group and the rest of humanity is damned.

 

[Silverhair]

Looked back over this and feel I can explain what I meant in the first post better:



The purpose of this quote was to show that "the world" is being used in a statement one might consider applicable to a universal view. I do not. I simply presented this to show that just because the wording implies the "world would be saved through Him" we don't ignore what we are taught elsewhere that indicates only those that believe will be saved.


God bless.

Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

I have always taken it to be that only those that believe will be saved. As we see in the next verse those that do not believe are condemned because of that decision.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

If we are saved by the death of Christ Jesus and we know that God the Father did "reconcile all things to Himself, by Him {Christ Jesus}" then you would have to be promoting universalism.

While reconciliation is universal salvation is not. Reconciliation touches the whole human race. Salvation is limited to the few who believe, for salvation depends on faith and belief.
A person may stand before God with every sin forgiven and blotted out, but if he is still in Adam then death rules over him. There is no hope of resurrection.

Reconcile, Reconciliation
A. Verbs.
1. katallasso (G2644) properly denotes "to change, exchange" (especially of money); hence, of persons, "to change from enmity to friendship, to reconcile." With regard to the relationship between God and man, the use of this and connected words shows that primarily "reconciliation" is what God accomplishes, exercising His grace towards sinful man on the ground of the death of Christ in propitiatory sacrifice under the judgment due to sin, 2Co_5:19, where both the verb and the noun are used (cf. No. 2, in Col_1:21). By reason of this men in their sinful condition and alienation from God are invited to be "reconciled" to Him; that is to say, to change their attitude, and accept the provision God has made, whereby their sins can be remitted and they themselves be justified in His sight in Christ. Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words

Man has to exercise their free will and turn to Christ Jesus in faith so that their sins are forgiven.

So you don’t believe in regeneration? It’s all on man and God is just there for the ride???

 

[Silverhair]

So you don’t believe in regeneration? It’s all on man and God is just there for the ride???

Of course I believe in regeneration, it's biblical. We only see it in two verses in the bible.
In Mat_19:28, which refers to the coming state of the whole creation, equivalent to the restoration of all things of Act_3:21 which will occur when the Son of Man shall come in His glory.
And again in Tit 3:5 this is the washing of regeneration and refers to the spiritual rebirth of the individual soul.

Man is regenerated/born again by the grace of God when they trust in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Salvation is the gift of God as we see here:
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.