Spiritual Truth and Doctrine II: The Meaning of Reconciliation

[kyredneck]

There is no doubt, that if one's carnal nature is destroyed in this life, his spirit will be saved in the Day of the Lord.

AMEN!

 

[Aaron]

For some reason you seem to think that I do not believe that the death of the Son was sufficient to cover all the sin of mankind. l have said many times that His death does that, did you miss that point?

I haven't missed a thing. I'm saying one whose sins are covered is saved.

Where we disagree is when I say and as the bible also says, that we are saved by His life whereas you say it was by His death.

No, you aren't saying what the Bible says here, I am.

So let's exegete the text:

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Let's look first at the letter that contains the text. It is to the saints in Rome, the Jewish saints primarily, but not exclusively.

Chapter 1: In the first chapter, Paul commends them for their faith, and extolls their blessed estate, contrasting it with the estate of those who do not believe, and upon whom the wrath of God, not the peace of God, is revealed from Heaven.

He is clearly at enmity with unbelievers . . .

Chapter 2: . . . jew and gentile alike . . .

Chapter 3: . . . because the law was not given to bring righteousness to the jews, it was given to exacerbate the sin of both jew and gentile. There is no righteousness apart from faith . . .

Chapter 4: . . . as the narrative concerning our father Abraham testifies.

Chapter 5: So, since we believers have been justified by faith we believers have peace with God through Jesus, and by whom we believers have entered and celebrate this blessed estate of peace of which we were told in the first chapter.

But we can also celebrate in tribulations, too knowing we will never lose this estate. God's grace will carry us through them.

Look, if while under God's judgement Christ died for us, how much more now that we are justified by His blood, are we safe from wrath?

Romans 5:10: And if we were saved from wrath by His death, just think about how much his living will keep us safe!​

That's what the Bible is saying. That's not what you're saying.

 

[Silverhair]

I haven't missed a thing. I'm saying one whose sins are covered is saved.

No, you aren't saying what the Bible says here, I am.

So let's exegete the text:

For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Let's look first at the letter that contains the text. It is to the saints in Rome, the Jewish saints primarily, but not exclusively.

Chapter 1: In the first chapter, Paul commends them for their faith, and extolls their blessed estate, contrasting it with the estate of those who do not believe, and upon whom the wrath of God, not the peace of God, is revealed from Heaven.

He is clearly at enmity with unbelievers . . .

Chapter 2: . . . jew and gentile alike . . .

Chapter 3: . . . because the law was not given to bring righteousness to the jews, it was given to exacerbate the sin of both jew and gentile. There is no righteousness apart from faith . . .

Chapter 4: . . . as the narrative concerning our father Abraham testifies.

Chapter 5: So, since we believers have been justified by faith we believers have peace with God through Jesus, and by whom we believers have entered and celebrate this blessed estate of peace of which we were told in the first chapter.

But we can also celebrate in tribulations, too knowing we will never lose this estate. God's grace will carry us through them.

Look, if while under God's judgement Christ died for us, how much more now that we are justified by His blood, are we safe from wrath?

Romans 5:10: And if we were saved from wrath by His death, just think about how much his living will keep us safe!​

That's what the Bible is saying. That's not what you're saying.

Actually what you have been saying is that the blood of the Son is what saves. From your view it is not the risen Son that saves but rather it is the dead Son that does. If it is the blood of the Son that saves then why do we need the risen Son? You still have not even tried to answer that.

We have peace with the Father through the blood of the Son but we are saved because of the risen Son. Salvation is limited to the few who believe, for salvation depends on faith.

Man is regenerated/born again by the grace of God when they trust in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Salvation is the gift of God as we see here:
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So as I have pointed out to you a number of times it is faith in the risen Son that saves, God the Father restored peace with man through the blood of the Son.

When are we made new? Was it at the cross or was it when we believed in the Son?
2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;
What is the condition for being in the Son?
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

So we can see that it is through faith in the risen Son that we are saved.
Rom_5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

This is why Paul pleads with man, be reconciled to God
2Co_5:20 ...as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
If we were saved at the cross why would Paul have to plead with us to be reconciled to God?

His blood restores peace with the Father His life provides salvation for all that will believe.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

 

[Aaron]

Actually what you have been saying is that the blood of the Son is what saves. From your view it is not the risen Son that saves but rather it is the dead Son that does. If it is the blood of the Son that saves then why do we need the risen Son? You still have not even tried to answer that.

We have peace with the Father through the blood of the Son but we are saved because of the risen Son. Salvation is limited to the few who believe, for salvation depends on faith.

Man is regenerated/born again by the grace of God when they trust in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
Salvation is the gift of God as we see here:
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So as I have pointed out to you a number of times it is faith in the risen Son that saves, God the Father restored peace with man through the blood of the Son.

When are we made new? Was it at the cross or was it when we believed in the Son?
2Co 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;
What is the condition for being in the Son?
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

So we can see that it is through faith in the risen Son that we are saved.
Rom_5:10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

This is why Paul pleads with man, be reconciled to God
2Co_5:20 ...as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
If we were saved at the cross why would Paul have to plead with us to be reconciled to God?

His blood restores peace with the Father His life provides salvation for all that will believe.
1Co 15:16 For if the dead do not rise, then Christ is not risen.
1Co 15:17 And if Christ is not risen, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins!

Whatever.

As I've shown, contrary to your dangerous notions, God is not at peace with unbelievers. Not even from 'His point of view.' On the contrary, His wrath on unbelievers is revealed from Heaven. He is at peace with those who are justified by faith in Christ, Romans 5:1. Those who are justified by His blood, that is, His death. These are the ones who are saved from wrath. Romans 5:9.

Salvation from wrath is Salvation.

Well I'm done. I leave you to your prattling in the fog.

 

[Silverhair]

Whatever.

As I've shown, contrary to your dangerous notions, God is not at peace with unbelievers. Not even from 'His point of view.' On the contrary, His wrath on unbelievers is revealed from Heaven. He is at peace with those who are justified by faith in Christ, Romans 5:1. Those who are justified by His blood, that is, His death. These are the ones who are saved from wrath. Romans 5:9.

Salvation from wrath is Salvation.

Well I'm done. I leave you to your prattling in the fog.

As per usual you run from any thing that requires you to actually think about the truth of your theology. I point out what the bible says and you just make silly comments. It looks like you really can not handle the truth.