Ye must be born again! 2

[Brightfame52]

Ye must be born again !

Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Jesus here speaking to Nicodemus says that it is needful, essential, its what must happen, and its inevitable.

Now its all that if Christ died for one ! This New Birth is only proper and appropriate for all that He died. This is True because all for whom He died has been Justified by His Blood Rom 5:9

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Which means declared Righteous or made Righteous Like Rom 5:19

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

So its incumbent upon the Spirit [For Christ's Death sake] to make them Righteous inherently or constitutionally so.

The word made is the greek word kathistēmi which means:

to set down as, constitute, to declare, show to be

d) to constitute, to render, make, cause to be

So those declared Judicially Righteous by the obedience of Christ, His Death, must be made constitutionally Righteous which is by New Birth, New Creation, Bring into existence a New Life.

This can also be called imparted Righteousness, which synchronizes their practical lives with their legal state before God based upon Christ's Blood.

Understand, its the same principle whereas in adam they were made sinners legally then constitutionally sinners by natural birth, so constitutional Righteousness must follow legal Righteousness to accord and agree, this is imparted Righteousness or New Birth.

 

[Brightfame52]

A Spiritual Resurrection !

The New Birth is actually equivalent to a Spiritual Resurrection from the dead, this is true, and in stating it again, it should be understood that the will of man does not contribute to it at all Jn 1:13

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

man contributes no more in the New Birth or Spiritual Resurrection from the dead, for this reason , man's condition before resurrection is that he is dead, just as Lazarus was dead before he was resurrected to life, remember Jesus words right before Jn 11:14

14 Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

And so it is with each human being naturally, having died in Adam, until we experience Spiritual Resurrection, the Spirit finds us dead in sin, and separated from the life of God Eph 2:5

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

That is the essence of Spiritual Death, alienation from the Life of God, the word alienation means:

to be shut out from one's fellowship and intimacy

And just as Lazarus could not act until after life was given, the same as quickening in Eph 2:5, man cannot act until after the Spirit quickening or giving them Life from the dead. Jn 6:63 !

David understood this, that man cannot call upon the Name of the Lord until quickened Ps 80:18

18 So will not we go back from thee: quicken us, and we will call upon thy name.

Now this Life or quickening the Spirit gives us is through Christ, because as our risen Saviour, He has become a Life giving Spirit 1 Cor 15:45

45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening or life giving Spirit.

The word quickening here means to:

to cause to live, make alive, give life !

Christ through His Resurrection became a Life giving Spirit, for the implantation/impartation of Life for all whom He died Jn 10:10b

10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.

He does this for them because His Death for them has abolished death for them.

However, before this impartation of Life, the condition the Spirit finds us in, we are dead, like Lazarus Jn 11:14.

One of the major reasons why false religion and works salvation flourish in the world today is because, the scriptural testimony of mans depravity and spiritual alienation/death from God is not believed or received.7

 

[Brightfame52]

Why the New Birth for some ?

Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Understand, those Christ has died for must be born again for the purpose of conversion, a newness of life. By New Birth ability is now given the soul by which the new born to be converted is enabled to Spiritually hear and believe on Christ for all of Salvation and Righteousness, as He is revealed to them in the Gospel Rom 1:16; for without it, the Gospel, the things of God cannot be spiritually received and understood as per Matt 13:23

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

The word understandeth here is the greek word syniēmi and means:

I.
to set or bring together
A.
in a hostile sense, of combatants


II.
to put (as it were) the perception with the thing perceived
A.
to set or join together in the mindI.

i.e. to understand: the man of understanding

ii.
idiom for: a good and upright man (having the knowledge of those things which pertain to salvation)

Now, Paul writes of the plight of the Lost man by nature and writes this Rom 3:11

There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

Yep that includes you and I by nature, we do not understand the things of God, we cannot bring or join them together in our mind.

Rom 8:7-8

7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

The unregenerate man and mind cannot put together the things of God together in their minds because its enmity against God and the things of God !

Paul writes something similar to that notion here 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

14 But the natural, nonspiritual man does not accept or welcome or admit into his heart the gifts and teachings and revelations of the Spirit of God, for they are folly (meaningless nonsense) to him; and he is incapable of knowing them [of progressively recognizing, understanding, and becoming better acquainted with them] because they are spiritually discerned and estimated and appreciated. AMP

Please note something here, this by no means does not mean that the natural man cannot have a natural intellectual ability to receive the Gospel Truths, but we do deny as does scripture that he has spiritual ability to do so. In the New Birth the Spirit of God immediately begets in the new born one a capacity for spiritual understanding, a spiritual will, spiritual affections, all Spiritual sensitivity faculties, to prepare them for the embracing with the New Heart, the Word of the Kingdom Matt 13:23.8

 

[Brightfame52]

The Necessity of the New Birth !

Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The word must dei:

I.it is necessary, there is need of, it behooves, is right and proper
A.
necessity lying in the nature of the case

Without it, men by nature are only flesh as Per Jesus statement Jn 3:6

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

And when it comes to God, obeying God, Pleasing God Jesus says Jn 6:63

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

This confirms one of the assesments of God's inditement of mankind by nature here through Paul Rom 3:12

They are all gone out of the way, they are G889 together become unprofitable; G889 there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

We as men by nature are unserviceable and useless to God.

With that in Mind, Not until a man is born again spiritually, does he have the ability to perform any acts of spiritual obedience, exercises, such as Repentance towards God and Faith in Christ as Per Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

The natural man of only natural generation cannot perform these charges, exhortations !

But only those who are of the Regeneration, who have been born again !

Since God knows this obviously, then He knows that those whom He desires to Repent and put faith in Christ, needs to first be Born Again, hence the Necessity of the New Birth from the Divine Perspective.

Those whom God is not willing that they perish, but come to Repentance 2 Pet 3:9

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Then He has also willed their New Birth First to Accomplish His will !

 

[Brightfame52]

The Necessity of the New Birth !

New Birth or Regeneration is the Spiritual Application of Justification or Imputed Righteousness, for Imputed Righteousness necessitates an Impartation of Righteousness which is New Birth or Regeneration. All whom God Justifies through the Death of His Son, must have that spiritually applied.

In this Regeneration the Justified one is now enabled to Repent and be ye Converted and receive the Gospel of their Salvation, for without New Birth however, this Conversion is impossible, Jesus said Matt 18:3

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

That's just another way of Jesus saying what He said here Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

The word become in Matt 18:3

And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Its the word ginomai:

I.to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being

Its speaking of New Birth, a coming into existence a second time, to receive a New Being, Existence, Nature, conscious, existence; life

Without this, Our Conversion to God is non existence ! Without it, man cannot see the Kingdom of God, nor the things of it. Without it he is blind to those things mentally and cannot perceive them, and they are foolishness to him, for they are only spiritually discerned. One of the things that is Spiritual that is foolishness to him, as per 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Is the Preaching of the Cross 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

The preaching of the Cross is to them that are in a lost state foolishness. The word for perish here in 1 Cor 1:18 is the word lost here in 2 Cor 4:3

But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

As long as man is in a unregenerate state by nature, he is experientially lost and in that case he is in a perishing state, and consequently to him in that state, the Preaching of the Cross, when its preached truthfully, is foolishness !

So one must be in a saved regenerate state of New Birth before the Gospel to them is not foolishness !

 

[percho]

IMHO

John 3 only says, one, a man, an anthrōpos, created and or born of flesh must become of something else.

One of flesh as here; Lev 17:11 for the soul (being) of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.

And has the exact same meaning as;

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; ( Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.) neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50


I've wondered if from the very beginning this isn't in the Word.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:26,27

Is it after being born again, to be after our likeness?

Consider what is said of man in Gen 1:26 above and Hebrews 2:5-8 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. ( Because he isn't of our likeness, he hasn't yet been born again?)

What say ye all?

 

[37818]

IMHO

John 3 only says, one, a man, an anthrōpos, created and or born of flesh must become of something else.

One of flesh as here; Lev 17:11 for the soul (being) of the flesh is in the blood; and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, for it is the blood that maketh atonement for the soul.

And has the exact same meaning as;

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; ( Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.) neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 1 Cor 15:50


I've wondered if from the very beginning this isn't in the Word.

And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. Gen 1:26,27

Is it after being born again, to be after our likeness?

Consider what is said of man in Gen 1:26 above and Hebrews 2:5-8 For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come, whereof we speak. But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. ( Because he isn't of our likeness, he hasn't yet been born again?)

What say ye all?

I honestly do not understand what you are asking.
Man must be born over.
God made man in His image.
The soul is in the flesh by way of the blood.
Flesh with the blood will not enter God's kingdom.
Christ's eternal rule (which never ends) will not change how it is until all things are place under Him by His Father. (1 Corinthians 15:28. 1 Corinthians 15:26. Revelation 20:14.)

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:7 Ye must be born again

Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

This is not an imperative given by Jesus to nicademus or anyone else, its an expression of need or necessity the word must dei:

I.it is necessary, there is need of, it behooves, is right and proper
A.
necessity lying in the nature of the case


The Need of the New Birth before the Elect of God can Repent and Believe the Gospel, is because of what they are by nature, for by nature all men are without exception are 1000% percent totally depraved corrupt, wicked, or perverted, and that incurably so, and so are not capable of anything on a spiritual level good ! Rom 3:10-12

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Now I already know the proud freewillers and arminians do not believe this truth about themselves, but do relegate it to others, but not to themselves by nature.

In fact however we are all by nature spiritually dead ! That's why is incurable, death is final !

Now all of us by natural birth are what Jesus says here Jn 3:6

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That's it folks, no matter how refined, cultured, religious, educated, moral and on and on, That which is born of the flesh [natural birth] is flesh ! And Paul writes about that this Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

Basically it means they which only have had a natural birth by their natural parents, cannot please God !!!!

All of us are born totally dead in trespasses and sins, hence we walk according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit which now worketh in the children of disobedience. Eph 2:2

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

The word walked means i.to regulate one's life according to a course of the age. The word according to is strong here , it means motion and direction, after the manner of:

Its to follow the rule of a destructive spiritual power.

Under the control of an spirit of operation ! Under the control of a Strong man Matt 12:29

Hence by nature, all of us, elect and non elect alike, we are in the realm of satan's kingdom, which Paul mentions here Col 1:13

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

All by nature, that which is flesh Jn 3:6a is under the Power of darkness:

That word Power means:

The power of rule or government (the power of him whose will and commands must be submitted to by others and obeyed)

We are under in his Kingdom. Jesus said Matt 12:26

26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

We are all by nature under his Power of darkness Acts 26:18

18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

All the while we are in nature, we can do nothing spiritually good, but only comply to satans will Jn 8:44

44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Even though Jesus is speaking to the children of the devil here, nevertheless, those He came to redeem of the Children of God, do have the same nature by birth as they do, and by that nature, we do only the lusts of the devil , which is disobedience to God again Eph 2:2-3

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

This describes Spiritual death ! Which we are by nature, elect and non elect !

 

[Mathetes66]

John 3:7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’

Jesus does not say, "We must" but "You must," etc. He had no consciousness of personal need of regeneration, nor was he in the first case born as flesh from flesh. His flesh was itself the work of the Spirit, 'a body was prepared for Me.' Jesus eternally existed as God & Creator. (John 1:1-3) Jesus is the very ONE who baptizes in the Holy Spirit! As God He cannot lie & cannot sin & has life in Himself. He IS the resurrection & the Life & is able to give that eternal life to all who believe & follow Him in obedience as His disciple.

The other thing to consider: can people seek after God or can God hear them if they are seeking after Him to find Him, even though they may be spiritually dead? Yes, they can. Rom 3 is talking about the wicked, about those who deliberately supress the truth in unrighteousness & want to no longer retain God even in their thought processes.

But there are passages and people who do try & seek after God & try to find Him, though spiritiually dead. Can God hear them in their honest hearts of searching & crying out to Him? Yes. Can God give visions to show people what they must do or who to go to in order to receive the message of how to be saved? Yes. Scripture shows us this truth in various places.

Heb 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who approaches Him must believe that He exists & that He rewards those who earnestly seek Him.

God will reward those who have enough faith to believe first that He exists. That is the starting point. One must believe in the existence of God before one can seek after Him. God rewards that with greater revelation & drawing that person to Himself.

Rom 1:16,17 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

Acts 17:22-31 Then Paul stood up in the meeting of the Areopagus & said, “Men of Athens, I see that in every way you are very religious. For as I walked around & examined your objects of worship, I even found an altar with this inscription: TO AN UNKNOWN GOD. Therefore what you worship as something unknown, I now proclaim to you. The God who made the world & everything in it is the Lord of heaven & earth & does not live in temples made by human hands. Nor is He served by human hands, as if He needed anything, because He Himself gives everyone life & breath & everything else. From one man He made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth & He determined their appointed times & the boundaries of their lands. God INTENDED THAT THEY WOULD SEEK HIM & perhaps REACH OUT FOR HIM & FIND HIM, though He is not far from each one of us. ‘For in Him we live & move & have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.' Therefore, being offspring of God, we should not think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by man’s skill & imagination.Although God overlooked the ignorance of earlier times, He now commands all people everywhere to repent. For He has set a day when He will judge the world with justice by the Man He has appointed. He has given proof of this to everyone by raising Him from the dead.”

God intended people would seek Him & perhaps reach out for Him & find Him.

Rom 1:19-21 ...What may be known of God is manifest within them, for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power & Godhead, so that they are without excuse, because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts & their foolish hearts were darkened.

God has placed WITHIN human beings that which may be known of God intuitively & naturally, namely His invisible attributes of eternal power & Deity & by the outward display of creation. How one responds to these two things will determine whether they continue to seek after Him & honor Him as God or become darkened in their understanding.

Cornelius & his household were such people--that honored & worshiped God as God, giving alms & praying. He didn't know God yet, not being saved but He was seeking after God to know Him. His prayers & almsgiving had come up to God as a memorial. God gave him a vision & he was to send for Peter, who would give him a message whereby he & his household might be saved.

Acts 10:1-6 At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion in what was called the Italian Regiment. He & all his household were devout & God-fearing. He gave generously to the people & prayed to God regularly. One day at about the 9th hour, he had a clear vision of an angel of God who came to him & said, “Cornelius!” Cornelius stared at him in fear & asked, “What is it, Lord?” The angel answered, “Your prayers & gifts to the poor have ascended as a memorial offering before God. Now send men to Joppa to call for a man named Simon who is called Peter. He is staying with Simon the tanner, whose house is by the sea.”

Acts 11:11-14 And behold, at that very moment three men arrived at the house in which we were, sent to me from Caesarea. And the Spirit told me to go with them, making no distinction. These six brothers also accompanied me & we entered the man’s house. And he told us how he had seen the angel stand in his house & say, ‘Send to Joppa & bring Simon who is called Peter; he will DECLARE TO YOU A MESSAGE BY WHICH YOU WILL BE SAVED, YOU & ALL YOUR HOUSEHOLD.’

Peter proclaimed the gospel & believed, receiving the Holy Spirit & were baptized. He also gives further evidence in Acts 15:7-11:

And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men & brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should HEAR THE WORD OF THE GOSPEL & BELIEVE. So God, WHO KNOWS THE HEART, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us & made no distinction between us & them, PURIFYING THEIR HEARTS BY FAITH. Now therefore, why do you test God by putting a yoke on the neck of the disciples which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved IN THE SAME MANNER AS THEY.”

 

[Brightfame52]

math 66

Rom 3 is talking about the wicked, about those who deliberately supress the truth in unrighteousness & want to no longer retain God even in their thought processes.

Wrong, Rom 3 is speaking about all men naturally from the womb, jew or gentile born under sin Rom 3:9-10

9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:7 Ye must be born again 2

Now again, this must be made clear, even though the Elect of God BY NATURE are not the children of the devil or of disobedience, nevertheless by nature they share the same type of nature, sinful, and as long as they merely remain in an unregenerate state in the flesh, we are remaining in satans power and kingdom, and cannot Hear, nor Understand God's words Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

We by nature as the devil's children by nature cannot hear it when preached nor when its read, and True Faith is birthed by Hearing the Word of God Rom 10:17

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Not only by nature we cannot hear the word of God, but neither do we understand it Again Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

And understanding is needed to hear spiritually and bear fruit Matt 13:23


23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.

Hearing without understanding it is not the Hearing of Rom 10:17.

Also the Natural man by nature does not understand spiritual things of God Rom 3:11

11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

I know many proud religionists like arminians and freewillers exempt themselves from the None here ! And they proudly claim that while they were in nature of the flesh, that they both sought after the True God and Understood Him !

But Rom 3:11 is by Paul here under Inspiration being applied to all men without exception Universally from age to age.

Listen, not one person under heaven, born of a woman, understands or seeks for the True Living God nor hears and understand His Word of Truth, and if we say otherwise, we are liars and the truth is not in us; Before any of us can Spiritually Hear God's Words, and begin to understand it, we must first be of God Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

And We must be delivered out of the kingdom of satan, of which Paul gives thanks to God for here Col 1:12-13

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered [set free, rescued] us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

Which is the result of the New Birth, and its when we are in the Kingdom of His Dear Son experientially by New Birth that we can Hear the Gospel of the Kingdom !

Its only men and women born of God into the Kingdom of His Dear Son, that shall be able to hear God's Words Jn 8:47, and hence its only they that can be those in this category Rom 10:17 ! Life from God must be before we can have the ability to hear, understand and believe, and that is why all for whom Christ died and redeemed, must be born again Jn 3:7

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 8

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:7 Ye must be born again 3

The scripture is full of the teaching of the New Birth or Regeneration because men by nature are spiritually dead, both the Elect[Children of God] and non elect [the children of the devil].

Here are a few scriptures that indicate the same. Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

The word dead nekros:

I.
properly
A.
one that has breathed his last, lifeless

B.
deceased, departed, one whose soul is in heaven or hell

C.
destitute of life, without life, inanimate


II.
metaph.
A.
spiritually dead
i.
destitute of a life that recognises and is devoted to God, because given up to trespasses and sins
ii.
inactive as respects doing right


B.
destitute of force or power, inactive, inoperative

All in red applies to us all by nature, being dead !

Luke 15:24

24 For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.

The speaker here is God the Father, and notice He calls the one that was dead, My Son, meaning a Child of God by nature, but being dead !

Now also understand something else about this verse, when the child of God is by nature dead in sin, he is also in a state of being lost "he was lost, and is found"

The word Lost apollymi is the same word Paul used here 2 Cor 4:3

3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:

4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Now understand something from Lk 15:24, while we are dead, we are Lost, and so all the while we are in this state or condition, the Gospel is being hid from us, so before believing the Gospel we must be saved out of a lost condition, which is what being made alive means Eph 2:5, which is also New Birth / Regeneration !

 

[Mathetes66]

Can People Seek God? Examining a Commonly Misused Bible Verse by Tim Chaffey

It is certainly not uncommon to hear Christians proclaim no one seeks after God or no man can seek after God. Often these types of claims come from those within the Reformed theology camp (popularly called Calvinists), but these claims are also used by non-Calvinists. Verses that seem to teach this idea can certainly be found. But is this what the biblical writers intended to teach or might they have had something else in mind?

Let’s first take a look at verses appearing to teach no one seeks after God & then highlight some reasons why I believe these passages are being misunderstood, at least to a degree.

Commonly Misused Bible Verse—As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; there is none who understands; there is none who seeks after God.” (Rom 3:10–11)

Well, there you have it. No one seeks after God, right? That’s what verse 11 plainly states, so how could I possibly argue that the Bible teaches something different? As always, we need to look at the ENTIRE context of what is taught, consider other verses that seem to run counter to this & in cases like this where the writer is quoting other passages, we need to look at the context of the original passage(s).

Following the letter’s introduction, Paul spends the bulk of Romans 1–3 building a watertight case demonstrating all of mankind is guilty of sinning against God. Ch. 1 explains that Gentiles who suppressed the truth in unrighteousness (v. 18) were guilty of an array of sins. Notice, he does not say every Gentile has done this (& he does not say every unbeliever throughout the future will be guilty of this, which is how vs. 18 is often misapplied today).

But before anyone could think of himself as being better than those described in ch. 1, Paul points out those who are self-righteous & judgmental are guilty of the same things (Rom 2:1). This includes both Jew & Gentile (2:9–10). In vs. 12–16 he mentions Gentiles who live moral lives, but the fact that they recognize God’s moral standards shows that they are to be held accountable for breaking them. Then for the remainder of the chapter & through 3:8, he focuses on Jewish people guilty of sinning against God.

As we reach 3:9, Paul starts to wrap up this section by identifying who is guilty of sin before God. The conclusion: everyone. “For all have sinned & fall short of the glory of God” (3:23). Before he reaches that point, Paul quotes a handful of verses from the Psalms, Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Jeremiah & Isaiah that talk about the wickedness of sinners.

10 As it is written: “There is none righteous, no, not one; There is none who understand;
There is none who seeks after God. They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one.” “Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”; “The poison of asps is under their lips”; “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.” “Their feet are swift to shed blood; Destruction & misery are in their ways; And the way of peace they have not known.”
“There is no fear of God before their eyes.” (Rom 3:10-18)

Near the start of these verses we see our topic: “There is none who seeks after God” (v. 11).

What is Paul attempting to do with this list of activities performed by sinners? Is he really trying to say that every single one of them is guilty of all of these actions? Of course not, that is, unless you want to say that every one of us (we are all sinners) has a mouth “full of cursing & bitterness” (v. 14) & “feet that are swift to shed blood” (v. 15). So surely this cannot be referring to every person. What about every unbeliever? While this is certainly true of some, it’s demonstrably inaccurate to apply it to all unbelievers (e.g., Are all non-Christian pacifists really swift to shed blood?).

Similarly, in v. 10 we read that there is not a single righteous person, “no, not one.” But how can this be understood as a sweeping statement to refer to all humanity when the Bible identifies several righteous people, including Abel (Heb 11:4), Noah (Gen 7: 1), Abraham (Rom 4:9) & Lot (2 Pet 2:7). Indeed, just 2 ch. later, Paul mentions someone might possibly be willing to die for a righteous man, & there someone might die for a good man (Rom 5:7). This implies Paul knew there were righteous people, so why would he quote a verse that seems to imply that none exist?

I believe it is a mistake to assume Paul believed every single person prior to salvation was personally guilty of every single action listed here, yet that is essentially what some claim when they cite Rom 3:11 as an absolute statement about every person’s unwillingness (or inability) to seek God. (original context qualifies the non-seekers)

When we consider the Psalms from which this verse is taken, it becomes clearer that not every single person is in view. Psalm 14 & 53 are very similar & begin with the same few verses, including an implication of our subject.

The fool has said in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt, They have done abominable works, There is none who does good. The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good,
No, not one. (Ps 53:1-3)

Notice that the words, “There is none who seeks after God” do not appear in this verse, or in any other OT verse. Paul seems to be summarizing an idea implicit in this passage. God looks down upon the children of men to see if there are any wise people or any that seek Him. v. 3 states that there is not one. If this is where the Psalm ended then I think a stronger case could be made by those who claim that no one seeks after God (or no one CAN seek after Him). However, it does not end here. It goes on to speak about people who don’t fit into this category.

Have the workers of iniquity no knowledge, Who eat up my people as they eat bread,
And do not call upon God? Oh, that salvation of Israel would come out of Zion! When God brings back the captivity of His people, Let Jacob rejoice & Israel be glad. (Ps 53:4,6)

Wicked people who do not seek after God in vs. 1–3 are contrasted with “my/HIs people,” “Jacob” & “Israel” in vs. 4 & 6. So obviously, the psalmist is not saying that every single person is included in the group that does not seek after God. Does this mean that perhaps some people do seek after Him? Let’s see what else the Bible has to say on that issue.

David wrote Ps 14 & 53 cited above. He also wrote: And those who know Your name will put their trust in You; For You, Lord, have not forsaken those who seek You (Ps 9:10).

Those who seek Him will praise the Lord (Ps 22:26). Let all those who seek You rejoice & be glad in You (Ps 40:16).

David instructed Solomon, to “know the God of your father & serve Him with a loyal heart & with a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts & understands all the intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will be found by you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off forever” (I Chron 28:9).

 

[Mathetes66]

(con’t) In Jer 29:13, God spoke “And you will seek Me & find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.” In his other book, he wrote, “The Lord is good to those who wait for Him, to the soul who seeks Him” (Lam 3:25). Similarly, in Hosea 5:15 we read, “…Then they will seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.” Later in the same book we read, “For it is time to seek the Lord, till He comes & rains righteousness on you (10:12). Many more examples of people who sought God (or would seek Him) could be cited from the OT. Does the NT teach that people can seek God?

In his famous address at the Areopagus in Athens, Paul told people that God spread man across the face of the earth & had determined their times & boundaries (a reference to Babel of Gen 11). Why did He do this? Acts 17:27 says that God divided them up “so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him & find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.”

This isn’t a mere hypothetical Paul sets up. God’s reason for dividing people into nations was so they might seek Him & find Him. So did this same individual (Paul) really think that not a single person could seek after God as he seems to have written to the Romans?

Heb 11 is seen as the “faith” chapter & also the “faith hall of fame.” The writer says that “without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is & that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him” (v. 6). According to the author of Hebrews, a person definitely can seek God, find Him & be rewarded by Him & even “diligently seek Him.”

In case you are wondering, in each of the verses cited above, the Greek word in the LXX translated as “seek” is the same word used in each of the NT verses. Furthermore, there are cases of people seeking God in Scripture. Ruth grew up in a pagan culture, but after seeing the example of her mother-in-law Naomi, she wanted to follow the God of Israel. Many other examples could be given.

When I have mentioned some of the above details to those who claim that no one seeks after God, they usually amend their original statement to say that a person cannot seek God unless God first enables or draws the person. Most Christians would agree with that amended statement. Yes, even the classic Arminian position states that man cannot believe in God unless God first works in him. I believe that is perfectly consistent with Scripture. Jesus said no one can come to Him unless the Father first draws him (Jn 6:44).

However, some Christians claim God must first regenerate a person before he could seek God. It leads to what I believe is an erroneous position. If God already regenerated the person (born again), why do they STILL have to seek God if found by Him? This strange notion is rooted in the Calvinist’s view of man’s total depravity & spiritual “deadness.” While I believe unregenerate man is depraved, possessing a sin nature & guilty of sinning against God, I believe they misinterpret what Paul meant when he said were “dead in trespasses in sin” (Eph 3:1,5). This will be the topic of an upcoming blog post, so let’s return to our main topic for now.

Is it only first regenerated that have the ability to seek God? I don’t believe so. While Jesus did say that the Father must first draw someone before they could come to Him, He also said that if He were lifted up from the earth (believed a reference to His Crucifixion), He would draw all to Himself (Jn 12:32). The Apostle John stated Jesus is “true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world” (1:9). I believe God has given all people the ability to seek Him & those in an honest heart (Lk 8:15) who do will find Him.

Does this mean a person saves himself because they sought God? Not at all! God initiated the process by drawing the person, Jesus died & rose to make salvation possible & the Holy Spirit convicts the person of sin. The person who seeks God simply believes the message of the gospel, responding in faith to the Savior’s sacrificial death, burial & Resurrection. And since we know Paul went to great lengths to explain that faith is not a work, then we can state unequivocally that when a person places their faith in Christ’s atoning work they are not in any way performing a work to save themselves.

The debates about Calvinism/Arminianism & related issues will likely continue until the Lord returns. They certainly will not be solved in this post, so please don’t turn the comment section into a debate on those issues—let’s stick to the topic in this post. Regardless of one’s position on these matters, I believe it is important for Christians to be more careful in how we use & quote the Bible. To cite Rom 3:11 to claim that no man seeks after God ignores the many passages in the Bible that speak of those who do seek God & those who are expected to seek Him. This forces a contradiction into the text where no contradiction exists when one understands the context of Rom 3 & balances that statement in light of relevant data found elsewhere in Scripture.

I think overemphasis on Rom 3:11 is an overreaction to the seeker-sensitive movement in churches & the right desire to caution believers against thinking people will naturally seek God if we are kind. While God may use our examples to draw them to Christ, we need remember the unbeliever’s default mindset is not godly. We should never be content in thinking by our moral behavior, church attendance, etc., we are directing unbelievers to God. Seeker-friendly should not be our primary goal, as that often waters down the gospel to avoid offending. Be friendly, but it’s the gospel that is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes (Rom 1:16), so we make every effort to tell them of Christ’s atoning work on the Cross & His subsequent Resurrection—even if it offends.

As always, understanding the context of a given passage is essential in determining its meaning. We know that in English, “all” doesn’t always mean “all,” but it certainly CAN mean “all.” In Rom 3:23, in the immediate context we read that by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified. Why? Well, if all of us have sinned, then we could never earn salvation since we would still have sin on our account. So in this context, it’s pretty easy to figure out if it means “all” or “most.” Regarding Jn 3:16 & whether “world” refers to the “whole world” or just some, once again context gives us the answer. In v 17, we see the exact same word (world = Gr. kosmos) 3X. Each time it refers to the whole world. It does not make sense in light of v 17. God didn’t send His Son into the “elect” to condemn the “elect.” The only way these verses make sense is if “world” is understood in its natural sense.” Thanks for reading. Tim Chaffey

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:7 Ye must be born again 4

Now more scriptures on us , man by nature, being dead Matt 8:22

22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Here in this verse nekros dead means for the first mention, the spiritually dead, the second mention means the physically dead person who is being funeralized !

This scripture also gives us to know that those Christ called to follow Him are not Spiritually dead. We know also who it is He calls to follow Him, His Sheep Jn 10:1-4

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

Another passage that indicates that men are dead by nature spiritually Ezekiel 37:1-5

The hand of the Lord was upon me, and carried me out in the spirit of the Lord, and set me down in the midst of the valley which was full of bones, Indicating death or being dead !

2 And caused me to pass by them round about: and, behold, there were very many in the open valley; and, lo, they were very dry.

3 And he said unto me, Son of man, can these bones live? And I answered, O Lord God, thou knowest.

4 Again he said unto me, Prophesy upon these bones, and say unto them, O ye dry bones, hear the word of the Lord.

5 Thus saith the Lord God unto these bones; Behold, I will cause breath to enter into you, and ye shall live:

This is analogous to being quickened, or being made alive ! Paul writes to the Spiritually alive Elect Eph 2:1,5

And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved )

Man can do nothing towards God without first being made alive by Christ, the Spirit of Christ ! So man must be born again !

 

[Brightfame52]

(con’t) In Jer 29:13, God spoke “And you will seek Me & find Me, when you search for Me with all your heart.” In his other book, he wrote, “The Lord is good to those who wait for Him, to the soul who seeks Him” (Lam 3:25). Similarly, in Hosea 5:15 we read, “…Then they will seek My face; In their affliction they will earnestly seek Me.” Later in the same book we read, “For it is time to seek the Lord, till He comes & rains righteousness on you (10:12). Many more examples of people who sought God (or would seek Him) could be cited from the OT. Does the NT teach that people can seek God?

In his famous address at the Areopagus in Athens, Paul told people that God spread man across the face of the earth & had determined their times & boundaries (a reference to Babel of Gen 11). Why did He do this? Acts 17:27 says that God divided them up “so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him & find Him, though He is not far from each one of us.”

This isn’t a mere hypothetical Paul sets up. God’s reason for dividing people into nations was so they might seek Him & find Him. So did this same individual (Paul) really think that not a single person could seek after God as he seems to have written to the Romans?

Heb 11 is seen as the “faith” chapter & also the “faith hall of fame.” The writer says that “without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is & that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him” (v. 6). According to the author of Hebrews, a person definitely can seek God, find Him & be rewarded by Him & even “diligently seek Him.”

In case you are wondering, in each of the verses cited above, the Greek word in the LXX translated as “seek” is the same word used in each of the NT verses. Furthermore, there are cases of people seeking God in Scripture. Ruth grew up in a pagan culture, but after seeing the example of her mother-in-law Naomi, she wanted to follow the God of Israel. Many other examples could be given.

When I have mentioned some of the above details to those who claim that no one seeks after God, they usually amend their original statement to say that a person cannot seek God unless God first enables or draws the person. Most Christians would agree with that amended statement. Yes, even the classic Arminian position states that man cannot believe in God unless God first works in him. I believe that is perfectly consistent with Scripture. Jesus said no one can come to Him unless the Father first draws him (Jn 6:44).

However, some Christians claim God must first regenerate a person before he could seek God. It leads to what I believe is an erroneous position. If God already regenerated the person (born again), why do they STILL have to seek God if found by Him? This strange notion is rooted in the Calvinist’s view of man’s total depravity & spiritual “deadness.” While I believe unregenerate man is depraved, possessing a sin nature & guilty of sinning against God, I believe they misinterpret what Paul meant when he said were “dead in trespasses in sin” (Eph 3:1,5). This will be the topic of an upcoming blog post, so let’s return to our main topic for now.

Is it only first regenerated that have the ability to seek God? I don’t believe so. While Jesus did say that the Father must first draw someone before they could come to Him, He also said that if He were lifted up from the earth (believed a reference to His Crucifixion), He would draw all to Himself (Jn 12:32). The Apostle John stated Jesus is “true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world” (1:9). I believe God has given all people the ability to seek Him & those in an honest heart (Lk 8:15) who do will find Him.

Does this mean a person saves himself because they sought God? Not at all! God initiated the process by drawing the person, Jesus died & rose to make salvation possible & the Holy Spirit convicts the person of sin. The person who seeks God simply believes the message of the gospel, responding in faith to the Savior’s sacrificial death, burial & Resurrection. And since we know Paul went to great lengths to explain that faith is not a work, then we can state unequivocally that when a person places their faith in Christ’s atoning work they are not in any way performing a work to save themselves.

The debates about Calvinism/Arminianism & related issues will likely continue until the Lord returns. They certainly will not be solved in this post, so please don’t turn the comment section into a debate on those issues—let’s stick to the topic in this post. Regardless of one’s position on these matters, I believe it is important for Christians to be more careful in how we use & quote the Bible. To cite Rom 3:11 to claim that no man seeks after God ignores the many passages in the Bible that speak of those who do seek God & those who are expected to seek Him. This forces a contradiction into the text where no contradiction exists when one understands the context of Rom 3 & balances that statement in light of relevant data found elsewhere in Scripture.

I think overemphasis on Rom 3:11 is an overreaction to the seeker-sensitive movement in churches & the right desire to caution believers against thinking people will naturally seek God if we are kind. While God may use our examples to draw them to Christ, we need remember the unbeliever’s default mindset is not godly. We should never be content in thinking by our moral behavior, church attendance, etc., we are directing unbelievers to God. Seeker-friendly should not be our primary goal, as that often waters down the gospel to avoid offending. Be friendly, but it’s the gospel that is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes (Rom 1:16), so we make every effort to tell them of Christ’s atoning work on the Cross & His subsequent Resurrection—even if it offends.

As always, understanding the context of a given passage is essential in determining its meaning. We know that in English, “all” doesn’t always mean “all,” but it certainly CAN mean “all.” In Rom 3:23, in the immediate context we read that by the works of the law, no flesh will be justified. Why? Well, if all of us have sinned, then we could never earn salvation since we would still have sin on our account. So in this context, it’s pretty easy to figure out if it means “all” or “most.” Regarding Jn 3:16 & whether “world” refers to the “whole world” or just some, once again context gives us the answer. In v 17, we see the exact same word (world = Gr. kosmos) 3X. Each time it refers to the whole world. It does not make sense in light of v 17. God didn’t send His Son into the “elect” to condemn the “elect.” The only way these verses make sense is if “world” is understood in its natural sense.” Thanks for reading. Tim Chaffey

Man naturally is spiritually dead in sin[Eph 2:1,5], and so doesnt seek the True God, yet naturally he may seek the god of his own fleshly mind and understanding, which is darkened.Prov 14:12

There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

Eph 4:18

Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

But now when a person has been made alive by God, to God they can now seek. But that's only after having been made alive first.

 

[Mathetes66]

John 5:24,25 AMEN, AMEN, I tell you, whoever HEARS MY WORD AND BELIEVES Him who sent Me HAS ETERNAL LIFE & will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over OUT FROM DEATH INTO LIFE. 25AMEN, AMEN, I tell you, the hour is coming & HAS NOW COME when THE DEAD WILL HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD & those who hear WILL LIVE.

Same repeated pattern throughout scripture: saved by grace through faith. HEAR MY WORD (the gospel); BELIEVE in God's testimony of who Christ is; THEN given eternal life. Spiritually dead people CAN HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD--and believe by faith--and those who do so will LIVE.

Cornelius & his household were NOT SAVED until Peter came & preached the gospel message. They heard it & believed & then the Holy Spirit came upon them--THE SAME WAY AS HE DID WITH THE DISCIPLES.

The man born blind that Jesus healed is another good example.

John 9:15-17 The man answered, “He put mud on my eyes & I washed & now I can see.”16Because of this, some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for He does not keep the Sabbath.” But others said, “How can a sinful man perform such signs?” And there was division among them. 17So once again they asked the man who had been blind, “What do you say about Him, since it was your eyes He opened?” “He is a prophet,” the man replied.

John 9:26-41 “What did He do to you?” they asked. “How did He open your eyes?”27He replied, “I already told you & YOU DID NOT LISTEN. Why do you want to hear it again? Do you also WISH TO BECOME HIS DISCIPLES?”28Then they HEAPED INSULTS ON HIM & said, “You are His disciple; we are disciples of Moses. 29We know that God spoke to Moses, but we do not know where this man is from.”

“That is remarkable indeed!” the man said. “You do not know where He is from & yet He opened my eyes. 31We know that God does not listen to sinners, but HE DOES LISTEN TO THE ONE WHO WORSHIPS HIM & does His will. 32Never before has anyone heard of opening the eyes of a man born blind. 33If THIS MAN WER NOT FROM GOD, He could do no such thing.”34They replied, “YOU WERE BORN IN UTTER SIN & YOU ARE INSTRUCTING US?” And they threw him out.35When Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, He found the man and said, “Do you believe in the Son of God?”36“Who is He, SIR?” he replied. “TELL ME SO THAT I MAY BELIEVE IN HIM.”37“You have already seen Him,” Jesus answered. “He is the One speaking with you.”38“Lord, I believe,” he said. And he worshiped Jesus.39Then Jesus declared, “For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind may see and those who see may become blind.”c40Some of the Pharisees who were with Him heard this, and they asked Him, “Are we blind too?” 41“If you were blind,” Jesus replied, “you would not be guilty of sin. But since you claim you can see, your guilt remains.”

Just like Nicodemus, the blind man recognized that 'this man' who healed him must be from God yet He didn't know yet who Jesus was nor had he placed his faith in the Son of God. Nicodemus didn't understand being born again. This man didn't either. Yet he knew that this stranger to him must be a prophet & he had a wish to become His disciple. As a yet unsaved man, he was instructing the INSTRUCTORS! They ridiculed & mocked him.

Jesus had left him to simply go wash the mud off his eyes in the pool of Siloam & he was healed. He was like the woman at the well. She called him Sir at first, then she said He is a prophet of some kind, then when she HEARD HIS VOICE & He revealed Himself as the Messiah, she believed and went to tell others. When Jesus found him after they had kicked him out of the temple, Jesus revealed to Him that He is indeed the Divine Son of God. He believed Jesus and then worshiped Him.

All these stories in the gospel of John show the same pattern & confirm the purpose of why the Apostle John wrote what He wrote in his gospel account, being moved by the Holy Spirit to do so. Even Thomas stopped unbelieving & believed!

John 20:24-31 Now Thomas called Didymus, one of the Twelve, was not with the disciples when Jesus came. 25So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord!”

But he replied, “Unless I see the nail marks in His hands & put my finger where the nails have been & put my hand into His side, I WILL NEVER BELIEVE.”26Eight days later, His disciples were once again inside with the doors locked & Thomas was with them. Jesus came & stood among them & said, “Peace be with you.”27Then Jesus said to Thomas, “Put your finger here & look at My hands. Reach out your hand & put it into My side. STOP UNBELIEVING & BELIEVE.”28Thomas replied, “My Lord & my God!”29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen & yet HAVE BELIEVED.”30Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book. 31But these are written so that YOU MAY BELIEVE that Jesus IS THE CHRIST, THE SON OF GOD & that BY BELIEVING YOU MAY HAVE LIFE IN HIS NAME.

 

[Brightfame52]

math62

Spiritually dead people CAN HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD--and believe by faith--and those who do so will LIVE.

Not true. Jesus said to spiritual dead people Jn 8:43

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

 

[Mathetes66]

It appears you ignored all the Scriptures I shared & isolated one verse (John 8:43) OUT OF CONTEXT. That is prooftexting an isolated verse to maintain your pretext of a man-made doctrine. So when we look at the FULL CONTEXT of John chapter 8, we see that Jesus is speaking to spiritually dead people & they are all hearing His voice & the message He was preaching. They are asking questions among themselves & pondering on the meaning of what Jesus said. Scripture then states in vs. 30: "As He was saying these things, many believed in Him." Spiritually dead people, MANY in the crowd, upon hearing Jesus' teaching, believed in Him. Yet some didn't & continued to dispute with Jesus. The very isolated verse you picked out of context is instructive itself though. The word for speech (Gk 'lalia') is different than one for word (Gk 'logos'). The former word connotes the form, manner, and tone of utterance & the latter its inner substance & power. They were not conscious of any of the need he came to satisfy, and so they failed to apprehend the entire manner of his revelation.

Some spiritually dead people responded in belief because they were in need, to which Jesus said that if they continued to hear and abide His Word, the truth of those words would set them free & prove they are His disciples. However, some others choose to 'close their ears FROM HEARING.' Sometimes God hardens a heart, other times, a person hardens their heart. Some were able to endure it, pondering what had been said. Others were not able to bear the truth that they were lost. A person who does not believe they are lost & in need of saving, will eventually grow tired of hearing the gospel & become hardened. Some people being spiritually dead are like people in a dark room, who upon someone turning on the light, can then see & understand & bear fruit. Other spiritually dead people are in the same dark room & the light is turned on but they cannot see & respond. Why? Because their eyes are tightly shut, their hears are stopped by them & it is as if they are still in a darkened room.

Jesus taught this in the parable of the sower. The first three examples of the seed being sown of the Word of God resulted in no fruit & thus no salvation. But the last example was different.

Jesus again teaches in Luke 8:15 'And that in the good ground: These are they, who in a noble & good heart, having heard the word, do retain it & bear fruit in continuance.'

They are the ones that retain the word; they are noble like the spiritually dead Bereans of Acts 17:11, who examined the Scriptures daily, to see if these things were true. And as a result: vss 12,13 'many of them therefore believed, with not a few Greek women of high standing as well as men. But when the Jews from Thessalonica learned that the word of God was proclaimed by Paul at Berea also, they came there too, agitating & stirring up the crowds.' This remains a consistent pattern in Scripture when the gospel is preached to spiritually dead people.


They bore fruit IN CONTINUANCE, just like Jesus said to those who believed in Him, CONTINUE in My word & prove their faith is genuine & prove that those who trust in & abide In Him & His teaching BEAR FRUIT.

 

[Brightfame52]

mathetos66

It appears you ignored all the Scriptures I shared & isolated one verse (John 8:43) OUT OF CONTEXT.

False, its within the context of scripture and to the point needed to be made. Some men cannot hear [spiritually] the word of God, Jesus said it here Jn 8:43
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

And the word cannot denotes a spiritual disability, not a physical one, for they could hear him physically.

Now Jesus gives the criteria in order to hear the word of God spiritually in Vs 47

He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

Now to be of God means to be made Spiritually alive to God, thats having been born of God or His Spirit. 1 Jn 4:6


We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

1 Jn 5:1

Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is[has been] born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

Jn 18:37

Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

So one cannot hear spiritually unless born of God !