Confession of a Hyper-Calvinist

[KenH]

Do you advise people to do that?

1) I would hope that no one would ask me for "advice". The gospel is not "advice"; it is a declaration that Christ has accomplished and finished everything necessary and needed for the salvation of God's elect, given to Him by the Father before the world began.

2) It is not a question of whether or not the elect will persevere as there is no doubt that they will.

John 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand. I and my Father are one.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

3) 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

The bottom line is that all of God's elect, chosen before the world began, will persevere because God will preserve them.

 

[KenH]

23 And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who will also do it. 1 Thess 5

Amen and amen!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

So, the doctrine of 'preservation' sends folks to hell.

That doesn't surprise me coming from you.

23 And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
24 Faithful is he that calleth you, who will also do it. 1 Thess 5

It is not the preservation of the saints that troubles me, but the use that people make of the doctrine.
God's saints will persevere, but only as they 'continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast ... not moved away from the hope of the Gospel which you heard......' (Colossians 1:23).
'If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on the things of the earth. For you died and your life is hid with Christ in God....... Therefore put to death your members that are on the earth:fornication, uncleanness, evil desire and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience' (Colossians 3:1-6). See also Ephesians 4:17-24.

 

[KenH]

It is not the preservation of the saints that troubles me, but the use that people make of the doctrine.
God's saints will persevere, but only as they 'continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast ... not moved away from the hope of the Gospel which you heard......' (Colossians 1:23).
'If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God. Set your mind on things above, not on the things of the earth. For you died and your life is hid with Christ in God....... Therefore put to death your members that are on the earth:fornication, uncleanness, evil desire and covetousness, which is idolatry. Because of these things the wrath of God is coming upon the sons of disobedience' (Colossians 3:1-6). See also Ephesians 4:17-24.

Jude 1:24-25 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, to the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

 

[JesusFan]

He concludes his article this way: "So while I specifically don’t approve of the label, “hyper-calvinist,” as I personally do not believe that the doctrines of grace have any business being named after a man, I am honored to be known as such. That is my confession, and I call upon all who agree with the doctrines briefly described in this paper to make this confession as well."

Personally, if believing that God is absolutely over sovereign over all of His creation causes some people to call me a hyper-calvinist, then so be it.

Are we eternally justified before we were saved, were were born in a state of right with God then as Hyper Calvinists teach and hold?

And did Jesus restrict the Gospel to just be given out to his own elect then, as they would assert?

Loved Spurgeon answer on that, as he strongly held to Calvinism. and yet stated will preach Christ to all, as God vfif not paint down the backs of his own elect a yellow stripe of paint!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

The bottom line is that all of God's elect, chosen before the world began, will persevere because God will preserve them.

God's elect were most certainly chosen before the world began, and they will certainly persevere, but only as they bear fruit worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8), and as they seek to keep His commandments (1 John 2:3-5).
John 3:7-8. 'My little children, let no one deceive you. He who practises righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.'

Galatians 5:19-21. 'Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are............ . Those who practise such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.'

"But you see, I'm one of the elect, chosen before the world began! These things don't apply to me."

'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived!' (1 Corinthians 6:9).

 

[KenH]

God's elect were most certainly chosen before the world began, and they will certainly persevere, but only as they bear fruit worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8), and as they seek to keep His commandments (1 John 2:3-5).
John 3:7-8. 'My little children, let no one deceive you. He who practises righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.'

Galatians 5:19-21. 'Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are............ . Those who practise such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.'

"But you see, I'm one of the elect, chosen before the world began! These things don't apply to me."

'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived!' (1 Corinthians 6:9).

I was doing some reading of John Flavel this morning, and I came across the same problem that your teaching apparently promulgates.

Let me put it this way, there is a huge difference between these two statements:

1) Because you do X, Y, and Z, it proves you are one of the elect.
2) Because you one of the elect, you do X, Y, and Z based on God having ordained that you will do X, Y, and Z by His working in you and for His good pleasure.

My reading this morning of Flavel led me to believe that he espoused statement 1). And it is unBiblical. I may be mistaken, but you are reminding me a lot of Flavel.

The Biblical statement is statement 2).

 

[kyredneck]

as they 'continue

Quote it correctly Martin, it's' IF they continue' not 'as they continue', and, you're preaching to the choir, only I'm not the heller that you are, God doesn't send His redeemed to the eternal flame, ever.

 

[kyredneck]

God's elect were most certainly chosen before the world began, and they will certainly persevere, but only as they bear fruit worthy of repentance (Luke 3:8), and as they seek to keep His commandments (1 John 2:3-5).

If this is not 'going to heaven' by works, I don't know what is.

 

[JesusFan]

I was doing some reading of John Flavel this morning, and I came across the same problem that your teaching apparently promulgates.

Let me put it this way, there is a huge difference between these two statements:

1) Because you do X, Y, and Z, it proves you are one of the elect.
2) Because you one of the elect, you do X, Y, and Z based on God having ordained that you will do X, Y, and Z by His working in you and for His good pleasure.

My reading this morning of Flavel led me to believe that he espoused statement 1). And it is unBiblical. I may be mistaken, but you are reminding me a lot of Flavel.

The Biblical statement is statement 2).

Ephesians 2:10

 

[JesusFan]

If this is not 'going to heaven' by works, I don't know what is.

Think MM is referring to the good fruit the really saved shall exhibit !

 

[KenH]

Are we eternally justified before we were saved, were were born in a state of right with God then as Hyper Calvinists teach and hold?

And did Jesus restrict the Gospel to just be given out to his own elect then, as they would assert?

Loved Spurgeon answer on that, as he strongly held to Calvinism. and yet stated will preach Christ to all, as God vfif not paint down the backs of his own elect a yellow stripe of paint!

"did Jesus restrict the Gospel to just be given out to his own elect then"

No.


"Are we eternally justified before we were saved"

"I was reminded that justification is unilaterally God’s legal declaration that His people are forgiven of their sins and declared righteous IN HIS SIGHT based upon the merits of Christ’s righteousness imputed alone (Romans 8:33-34; 2 Corinthians 5:19-21). And even though God’s justifying His people in His sight ALWAYS leads to their experiencing the new birth and being brought to faith in Christ and true repentance by the work of the Holy Spirit within them, the act of justification is NOT a work within God’s people. It is totally and exclusively an act of God and involves not how they view Him, but how He views them.

So, I have come from believing justification at the time of faith, to justification at the cross, to justification from eternity. But I can say without a doubt that as I have studied these views and arrived at my present position, the basic Gospel truth under which I was initially converted to faith in Christ and true repentance has never changed. The Gospel message wherein the righteousness of God is revealed concerns the glorious Person and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ as the only ground upon which God saves sinners. It is salvation conditioned on Christ Who, by Himself and for His people, fulfilled all conditions so as to secure their complete salvation. His righteousness imputed is the only ground of justification before God. WHEN God actually imputes this righteousness to His people is not a Gospel issue, again, unless one’s view of the timing either denies or confuses Christ and His righteousness as the only ground upon which God saves sinners. True believers can and do disagree on this matter."

- from Bill Parker's When Are God's People Justified in His Sight? in which he goes in depth on this issue over the course of 52 pages; can be read online for free here - When_Are_Gods_People_Justified_in_His_Sight_new.pdf (b5z.net)

 

[JesusFan]

"did Jesus restrict the Gospel to just be given out to his own elect then"

No.


"Are we eternally justified before we were saved"

"I was reminded that justification is unilaterally God’s legal declaration that His people are forgiven of their sins and declared righteous IN HIS SIGHT based upon the merits of Christ’s righteousness imputed alone (Romans 8:33-34; 2 Corinthians 5:19-21). And even though God’s justifying His people in His sight ALWAYS leads to their experiencing the new birth and being brought to faith in Christ and true repentance by the work of the Holy Spirit within them, the act of justification is NOT a work within God’s people. It is totally and exclusively an act of God and involves not how they view Him, but how He views them.

So, I have come from believing justification at the time of faith, to justification at the cross, to justification from eternity. But I can say without a doubt that as I have studied these views and arrived at my present position, the basic Gospel truth under which I was initially converted to faith in Christ and true repentance has never changed. The Gospel message wherein the righteousness of God is revealed concerns the glorious Person and finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ as the only ground upon which God saves sinners. It is salvation conditioned on Christ Who, by Himself and for His people, fulfilled all conditions so as to secure their complete salvation. His righteousness imputed is the only ground of justification before God. WHEN God actually imputes this righteousness to His people is not a Gospel issue, again, unless one’s view of the timing either denies or confuses Christ and His righteousness as the only ground upon which God saves sinners. True believers can and do disagree on this matter."

- from Bill Parker's When Are God's People Justified in His Sight? in which he goes in depth on this issue over the course of 52 pages; can be read online for free here - When_Are_Gods_People_Justified_in_His_Sight_new.pdf (b5z.net)

Eternally justified in the mind and sight of God, based upon his foreknowledge and Predestination of the elect, but per us, we are justified once received Jesus as our Lord and savior and sealed by indwelling Holy Spirit!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

If this is not 'going to heaven' by works, I don't know what is.

You are absolutely right, of course. You don't know what 'going to heaven by works' is.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

"did Jesus restrict the Gospel to just be given out to his own elect then"

No.

Amen! The Gospel goes out to everyone! This is my first and greatest concern about Hyper-Calvinism, that so many deny the free proclamation of the Gospel.

"Are we eternally justified before we were saved"

"I was reminded that justification is unilaterally God’s legal declaration that His people are forgiven of their sins and declared righteous IN HIS SIGHT based upon the merits of Christ’s righteousness imputed alone (Romans 8:33-34; 2 Corinthians 5:19-21).

But this just isn't so. In Various places it is made abundantly clear that we are justified by faith (Matthew 10:32; John 3:16; Romans 4:5; 5:1; 10:9-11; Acts of the Apostles 16:31;etc.). Now I fully accept that faith is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8), but we are not justified until we believe. Before that time we were under God's wrath even though He knew He was going to redeem us.
Isaiah 12:1-3. 'And in that day (the day of Jesus Christ; Isaiah 11:1, 10) you will say, "O LORD, I will praise you; though You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away and you comfort me. Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid, for YAH, the LORD, is my strength and song. He has also become my salvation." Therefore with joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.' That, IMO, is a total refutation of justification from eternity.

The reason that is important is because if the elect are already justified, then why do we need to preach the Gospel to them? They would be justified without faith.[/QUOTE]

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I was doing some reading of John Flavel this morning, and I came across the same problem that your teaching apparently promulgates.

Let me put it this way, there is a huge difference between these two statements:

1) Because you do X, Y, and Z, it proves you are one of the elect.
2) Because you one of the elect, you do X, Y, and Z based on God having ordained that you will do X, Y, and Z by His working in you and for His good pleasure.

My reading this morning of Flavel led me to believe that he espoused statement 1). And it is unBiblical. I may be mistaken, but you are reminding me a lot of Flavel.

The Biblical statement is statement 2).

I'm surprised and honoured that you would mention me in the same breath as John Flavel.
He was one of the greatest of the Puritans, and ministered in Dartmouth, Devon until he was ejected in 1662, when he moved to the village of Galmpton because of the Five Mile Act. I have had the honour of preaching in Flavel Chapel, Galmpton.

To answer your conundrum, Christians do not seek to keep the moral law (which I suppose is your X, Y and Z) in order to be saved, but because they are saved, and God has put His laws on their mind and written them upon their hearts (Hebrews 8:10). But that seems to beg a question: if someone claims to be a Christian, but makes no attempt to keep God's commandments, what evidence is their that God has actually saved him, or that he loves Jesus (John 14:15).

 

[KenH]

Amen! The Gospel goes out to everyone! This is my first and greatest concern about Hyper-Calvinism, that so many deny the free proclamation of the Gospel.


But this just isn't so. In Various places it is made abundantly clear that we are justified by faith (Matthew 10:32; John 3:16; Romans 4:5; 5:1; 10:9-11; Acts of the Apostles 16:31;etc.). Now I fully accept that faith is the gift of God (Ephesians 2:8), but we are not justified until we believe. Before that time we were under God's wrath even though He knew He was going to redeem us.
Isaiah 12:1-3. 'And in that day (the day of Jesus Christ; Isaiah 11:1, 10) you will say, "O LORD, I will praise you; though You were angry with me, Your anger is turned away and you comfort me. Behold, God is my salvation, I will trust and not be afraid, for YAH, the LORD, is my strength and song. He has also become my salvation." Therefore with joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.' That, IMO, is a total refutation of justification from eternity.

The reason that is important is because if the elect are already justified, then why do we need to preach the Gospel to them? They would be justified without faith.

Anyone who denies the necessity of preaching the gospel and the new birth is teaching a false doctrine.

From the 52-page book I linked to earlier in this thread:

"There are some who hold a view of eternal justification and wrongfully use it to deny the necessity of Christ coming in time to accomplish righteousness for His people and deny the necessity of the means and fruits of justification that God gives to His people in time. They claim that because God’s people have been justified in eternity, it is not necessary for Christ to come and do His powerful work on the cross. I heard a man preach one time that “God did not have to send His Son to suffer and die on the cross to save us from sin. He could just as well have snapped His fingers and we would be saved.” Whatever view of the timing of justification this individual held to, this statement is heresy, a denial of the true Gospel and the clear teachings of God’s Word. Whenever God justifies His chosen people, it is always on the just ground of the righteousness that Christ accomplished in time in His obedience unto death. Without Christ doing His work for His people in time, there is no justification at any time.

Others hold a view of eternal justification and use it to deny the necessity of the new birth, claiming that God’s people do not have to be born again in time, hear, and believe the Gospel of God’s grace in Christ. They take a fatalistic view of God’s eternal dealings with His people. It is the same with their view of the doctrine of election. They claim that because God chose His people in eternity, they could go through this life and never be born again and never hear and believe the Gospel finding out only at Judgment that they were chosen by God. There are others who claim that all whom God chose and justified must be born again, but that the new birth does not necessarily include hearing and believing the true Gospel and being brought to faith in Christ and repentance of dead works and idolatry.

The Bible teaches that all whom God has chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, all whom God has justified in Christ as their Surety based on the merits of His obedience unto death in time, will be born again by the Spirit under the preaching of the Gospel and be brought to faith in Christ and repentance of dead works and idolatry. No one has a proper Biblical claim of being chosen or justified by God until he is born again by the Spirit and brought by God to faith in Christ and repentance of dead works. In this matter, allow me to answer an objection raised by one who is adamantly opposed to any view of justification in eternity. He claims that anyone who holds ANY view of justification from eternity has people “walking around not knowing they have been justified.” This is the same objection that false Christians bring against God’s election of grace. God’s people were chosen by God in Christ before the foundation of the world, yet they are all born spiritually dead in trespasses and sins. They are all born lost, not knowing the right way of salvation by God’s grace. Someone said, “We cannot tell people that they were justified by God before they believe.” This is true! We cannot be true to the Scriptures and tell any sinner that they were chosen of God, redeemed by Christ, or justified in God’s sight before the Holy Spirit brings them to faith in Christ and repentance of dead works and idolatry. Faith in Christ and true repentance are the first evidences of election, redemption, and justification."

 

[KenH]

what evidence is their that God has actually saved him

I look to Christ and his work and sacrifice on the cross as my evidence. I look at nothing in this vile, corrupt person that I am as evidence of anything other than I am vile sinner. Any thing good that I might actually do is all by God's absolutely sovereignty and grace:

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.

(emphasis mine)

 

[KenH]

I have had the honour of preaching in Flavel Chapel, Galmpton.

Cool!

 

[kyredneck]

we are not justified until we believe.

Wrong! (but I notice you're no longer espousing the anti-scriptural mantra 'justification by faith ALONE', that's an improvement)

8 But God commendeth his own love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, shall we be saved from the wrath of God through him.

20 Nevertheless in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rejoice that your names are written in heaven. Lu 10

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13

It's justified from eternity...but I suppose you're going to say next that taking comfort in these truths can cause His redeemed to backslide and lose their eternal salvation.