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Good In Bad People?

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Salty

Salty

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Darrell C

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AustinC said:
We will disagree on this. Where as you are emphasizing the human experience, I am emphasizing the Divine action of God.
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But I didn't emphasize the human experience, I presented both the perspective of human (temporal) and God (eternity).

I agree that our salvation is a done deal before we are even conceived. But we have to place when in time things occur. A specific time of Creation. A specific time for the Flood. A specific time fo Christ coming to fulfill prophecy. A specific time when men began to become sons of God.

And a specific time when you and I were baptized into Jesus. We were not in Christ prior to that time.


AustinC said:
This precisely why Peter expresses our salvation/ adoption as...already, but not yet.
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I would have to see what statement of Peter you refer to, but I am sure that what we are awaiting is the redemption of our bodies. That we await that part of our Eternal Salvation doesn't change the fact that we have been made sons at a specific time in history.

Similarly, the Old Testament Saints were "saved" but they awaited Eternal Redemption. Their eternal destinies were as secure as ours, but they had to await the fullness of times, at which time God sent His Son that they might be redeemed on an eternal basis, and thereby brought into a relationship that exceeded that which they knew while alive.


AustinC said:
What God ordered and wrote down before time began, God then invoked in time.
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I agree with that: GOd's will has never changed, and He knew what He would do before He did it.


AustinC said:
As little children, we experience the adoption in time, yet God has always adopted us from before time began.
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He knew He would bring about adoption, but it wasn't a reality until God gave men the power to become sons of God, and this was through faith in Christ.


Galatians 3:23-27 King James Version

23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


There was a time when (The) faith had not come. We know men had faith, but here it is specific faith in the Risen Savior that is in view.

There was a time when (The) faith had come. We see this faith redeemed men from the Law (Galatians 4:4-6).

There was a time when we became children of God through The Faith which was not present before, but now is.

There was a time when we were baptized into Christ.

There is a clear distinction between then and now. We see this throughout the New Testament.

Clearly what takes place in time (the temporal) and Eternity are distinguished as not having power/force simply because God planned on doing it at some point in time. THis is why we call Prophecy prophecy.


AustinC said:
Already, not yet.

We live with this tension and seeming paradox.
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But you didn't live with it before you were born again, Austin, because you were completely incapable of even understanding your sin and the righteousness of Christ. The notion of Hell was not something you viewed as a reality. We can believe there is a Hell without being born again in an intellectual sense, but when we brought under conviction we who received Christ did something about it. We trusted Christ. Those with an intellectual understanding do not do something about it.


God bless.
 
37818

37818

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Earth Wind and Fire said:
Shed for who?
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. . . Luke 22:20-21,". . . Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you. But, behold, the hand of him that betrayeth me is with me on the table. . . ." The you included those He spoke to at the table, and would not have excluded His betrayer, who was an unbeliever. And so was not limited to only the eleven, but include all believers and unbelievers. If
We exclude Judas it it would be limited to only the eleven. Which cannot be true.
 
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