The Disciples of Christ and cremation, what does the Lord say about it?

[Scripture More Accurately]

LOL, the verse say the dead (unsaved) bury, thus those saved are not to bury. If you can read your nonsense into the text, i.e only burial is supported by scripture, when people were burned in Gehenna, is idiotic false doctrine.

Your vitriol that you often spew when you interact with people on this board speaks volumes about you. I will not waste time interacting with you further.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I stand corrected. Thank you. So, based on your statement, Jesus isn’t giving any guidance to believers in these passages concerning how believers should handle of their own dead.

You have just disproven your own argument these passages are instructions to believers to “bury” and not “cremate”.

Thanks again for revealing the truth of the matter.

Peace to you

You are badly mistaken, perhaps because you do not read carefully what people say. In effect, you are refuting a straw man. I did not make the argument that you claim that I did.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I think most know the burial practices. It is not a secret. Did you assume they drove the body in a hearse to a cemetery and dug a 6 ft hole?

Anyway, as you note, it is the dead who are commanded (using your method of interpretation) their dead. Who are you to call Christian's "lost" that should "bury their dead"???

We are saved. The example we have is using tombs, no casket, no embalming.

I did not call any Christians lost. You are misrepresenting what I said.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

This is false.

Others have engaged the topic in a serious and biblical manner.

What you have to remember is this is a Baptist board and this is being posted in the Baptist section of the Baptist Board.

Don't act surprised when members interacting on this Baptist section of the Baptist Board hold the Baptist distinctives.

The question is why you are posting in this section.

What do these statements about Baptist distinctives, etc.have to do with cremation versus burial?

 

[JonC]

I did not call any Christians lost. You are misrepresenting what I said.

You said that the lost bury their dead. Then you equated these lost to Christians, saying this means Christians should bury their dead..

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

This is what you said:

I think most know the burial practices. It is not a secret. Did you assume they drove the body in a hearse to a cemetery and dug a 6 ft hole?

Anyway, as you note, it is the dead who are commanded (using your method of interpretation) their dead. Who are you to call Christian's "lost" that should "bury their dead"??? [bold added to original]

We are saved. The example we have is using tombs, no casket, no embalming.

I never called any Christians lost.

 

[JonC]

What do these statements about Baptist distinctives, etc.have to do with cremation versus burial?

Soul liberty is a Baptist distinctive. Baptists do not look to Scripture to validate everything we do (types of music, use if instruments, methods of burial, etc.) but rather gives liberty when Scripture does not directly speak on issues.

You are not, by virtue of your posts, what we would call a "Baptist" (although you may have baptistic ideas).

The CoC is similar. They hold many Baptist ideas but reject Baptism as an ordinance. You hold many Baptist ideas, but take a CoC approach to Scripture.

 

[JonC]

This is what you said:




I never called any Christians lost.

You said the Bible teaches to let the list bury their dead, therefore Christians should bury their dead. Do you not remember the post?

You are misrepresenting what Jesus said. He did not say, "Let the dead bury the dead." He said, "Let the dead bury their dead."

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

While you are challenging others about speaking truth, it is vital that you do the same.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Soul liberty is a Baptist distinctive. Baptists do not look to Scripture to validate everything we do (types of music, use if instruments, methods of burial, etc.) but rather gives liberty when Scripture does not directly speak on issues.

You are not, by virtue of your posts, what we would call a "Baptist" (although you may have baptistic ideas).

The CoC is similar. They hold many Baptist ideas but reject Baptism as an ordinance. You hold many Baptist ideas, but take a CoC approach to Scripture.

False, I detest the CoC. I have been a faithful member of independent, fundamental Baptist churches all of my Christian life. When people claim that the Bible does not speak to an issue but it actually does, I challenge their claims biblically.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You said the Bible teaches to let the list bury their dead, therefore Christians should bury their dead. Do you not remember the post?

Wrong. You wrongly connected thoughts that I expressed but did not directly connect. I did not use the word "therefore" in my statements to connect the statements.

 

[JonC]

False, I detest the CoC. I have been a faithful member of independent, fundamental Baptist churches all of my Christian life. When people claim that the Bible does not speak to an issue but it actually does, I challenge their claims biblically.

I am not saying you are CoC. I am saying you approach Scripture in the same way.

They do not have fellowship halls in the church building. Why? Because the Bible does not say they can. They do not use instruments in worship? Why? Because the NT does not say they used instruments in worship.

You believe cremation is wrong. Why? Because the Bible does not say we can cremate.

 

[JonC]

Wrong. You wrongly connected thoughts that I expressed but did not directly connect. I did not use the word "therefore" in my statements.

Yes. This is a thread about cremation. You offered the passage. If you are implying that cremation is acceptable then you have my apology.

You are correct. Cremation is not prohibited by Scripture. Given Joseph had his organs removed and was buried (entombed) in the Egyptian custom, I agree.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Yes. This is a thread about cremation. You offered the passage. If you are implying that cremation is acceptable then you have my apology.

You are correct. Cremation is not prohibited by Scripture. Given Joseph had his organs removed and was buried (entombed) in the Egyptian custom, I agree.

No, I did not imply nor do I believe that cremation is acceptable. The Bible does not provide any basis for Christians to choose cremation and teaches emphatically the vital importance of a proper burial.

Joseph was not cremated.

 

[canadyjd]

You are badly mistaken, perhaps because you do not read carefully what people say. In effect, you are refuting a straw man. I did not make the argument that you claim that I did.

You do not see that the argument you made (that Jesus said “let the dead bury THEIR dead”) actually undermines the very premise of your argument that Jesus commands Christians to “bury” their dead.

You clearly stated Jesus was not speaking to Christians in those passages, so your argument has been disproven by your own words, whether you see it/admit it or not.

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You do not see that the argument you made (that Jesus said “let the dead bury THEIR dead”) actually undermines the very premise of your argument that Jesus commands Christians to “bury” their dead.

You clearly stated Jesus was not speaking to Christians in those passages, so your argument has been disproven by your own words, whether you see it/admit it or not.

peace to you

Here's a challenge to you. Prove with direct quotes of the exact words that I said (with the number of the comment) from anything that I have said how your claim that I "clearly stated Jesus was not speaking to Christians in those passages" is valid. Where and when did I say that Jesus was not speaking to Christians in those passages?

You are mixing up what others have said with what I have said.

 

[JonC]

No, I did not imply nor do I believe that cremation is acceptable. The Bible does not provide any basis for Christians to choose cremation and teaches emphatically the vital importance of a proper burial.

Joseph was not cremated.

This is what I mean, you approach Scripture as a CoC member approaches Scripture.

The New Testament does not provide any basis for Christians using musical instruments. Do you believe it is wrong?

The Bible does not provide any basis for dressing well to go to church. Do you believe it is wrong?

The Bible does not provide any basis for a regular Wednesday night service. Do you believe it is wrong?

The Bible does not provide any basis to have individual copies of Scripture. Do you believe it is wrong to own a Bible?

The Bible does not provide any basis for Bible study materials. Do you believe this is wrong?

The Bible does not provide any basis to bury a body under the ground. Do you believe it is wrong?

The Bible does not provide any basis for embalming a body (this comes from pagan practices). Do you believe it is wrong?

The Bible does not provide a basis to use a casket (Orthodox Jews still don't). Do you believe caskets are wrong?

 

[JonC]

Here's a challenge to you. Prove with direct quotes of the exact words that I said (with the number of the comment) from anything that I have said how your claim that I "clearly stated Jesus was not speaking to Christians in those passages" is valid. Where and when did I say that Jesus was not speaking to Christians in those passages?

You are mixing up what others have said with what I have said.

Jesus said "let the dead bury their dead". He was speaking to Christians (to His Disciples). The first "dead" refer to the lost, not to believers. The second "dead" refers to those who have physically died.

Are you suggesting that Christians are not to bury anyone, or attend funerals, but instead are to preach?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

This is what I mean, you approach Scripture as a CoC member approaches Scripture.

The New Testament does not provide any basis for Christians using musical instruments. Do you believe it is wrong?

The Bible does not provide any basis for dressing well to go to church. Do you believe it is wrong?

The Bible does not provide any basis for a regular Wednesday night service. Do you believe it is wrong?

The Bible does not provide any basis to have individual copies of Scripture. Do you believe it is wrong to own a Bible?

The Bible does not provide any basis for Bible study materials. Do you believe this is wrong?

The Bible does not provide any basis to bury a body under the ground. Do you believe it is wrong?

The Bible does not provide any basis for embalming a body (this comes from pagan practices). Do you believe it is wrong?

The Bible does not provide a basis to use a casket (Orthodox Jews still don't). Do you believe caskets are wrong?

I would dispute the validity of many of these statements, but doing so would only serve to move the discussion further and further away from the subject of the thread. I do not care what you say CoC do or do not do. I believe in intensely studying the totality of the Bible and allowing it to direct everything that we are to do, whether by explicit statement or necessary inferences, etc.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Jesus said "let the dead bury their dead". He was speaking to Christians (to His Disciples). The first "dead" refer to the lost, not to believers. The second "dead" refers to those who have physically died.

Are you suggesting that Christians are not to bury anyone, or attend funerals, but instead are to preach?

This challenge was not to you. Someone else made a claim. That person needs to back up his claim with direct quotes from what he claims I said.

 

[canadyjd]

Your post #90 where you accused me of misrepresenting what Jesus said.

You are misrepresenting what Jesus said. He did not say, "Let the dead bury the dead." He said, "Let the dead bury their dead."

Matthew 8:22 But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead.

Luke 9:60 Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead: but go thou and preach the kingdom of God.

While you are challenging others about speaking truth, it is vital that you do the same.

So, you corrected me (an astute observation BTW, well done) that Jesus actually stated “let the dead bury their dead”.

Your argument is that Jesus is giving instructions in these passages that Christians should be buried.

But then you rightly point out in the verses you are using to support that claim, Jesus isn’t talking about believers but rather “the dead bury their dead” For believers, Jesus says “follow Me” and “preach the kingdom of God”.

Now, unless you are claiming believers are “dead”, and are not commanded in these verses to follow Jesus, you are, in fact, saying Jesus was speaking about unbelievers in these passages “burying” their dead.

And that does disprove your argument.

peace to you