The Disciples of Christ and cremation, what does the Lord say about it?

[Scripture More Accurately]

Your post #90 where you accused me of misrepresenting what Jesus said.


So, you corrected me (an astute observation BTW, well done) that Jesus actually stated “let the dead bury their dead”.

Your argument is that Jesus is giving instructions in these passages that Christians should be buried.

But then you rightly point out in the verses you are using to support that claim, Jesus isn’t talking about believers but rather “the dead”. For believers, Jesus says “follow Me” and “preach the kingdom of God”.

Now, unless you are claiming believers are “dead”, and are not commanded in these verses to follow Jesus, you are, in fact, saying Jesus was speaking about unbelievers in these passages “burying” their dead.

And that does disprove your argument.

peace to you

False. My argument is not what you have repeatedly misunderstood it to be.

Jesus addressed these verses to a disciple. The content of the verses reveals the mind of God about burial because Jesus was and is God and He is making an authoritative statement about burial.

The implications of that statement are what you and others have so far not understood.

 

[canadyjd]

This challenge was not to you. Someone else made a claim. That person needs to back up his claim with direct quotes from what he claims I said.

Ok, I accept your challenge. I’ll ask what JonC asked.

Jesus said "let the dead bury their dead". He was speaking to Christians (to His Disciples). The first "dead" refer to the lost, not to believers. The second "dead" refers to those who have physically died.

Are you suggesting that Christians are not to bury anyone, or attend funerals, but instead are to preach?

These are valid questions which are the logical conclusions of your statements

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Ok, I accept your challenge. I’ll ask what JonC asked.


These are valid questions which are the logical conclusions of your statements

peace to you

Wrong. They are not the logical conclusion of my statements.

Those verses are only two of numerous passages that establish the premier importance of burial in Scripture. Those verses can only be interpreted correctly when they are put in the proper context of all of the rest of the Bible's teaching about burial.

 

[canadyjd]

Wrong. They are not the logical conclusion of my statements.

Those verses are only two of numerous passages that establish the premier importance of burial in Scripture. Those verses can only be interpreted correctly when they are put in the proper context of all of the rest of the Bible's teaching about burial.

Burial is of “Premier importance”? Really?

O please explain exactly what is at stake if the burial is not done properly? If I am cremated?

Is salvation at stake? Is God not able to resurrect my body if it’s burned to ash?

If salvation is not at stake then burial does not rise to the level of “premier importance”.

peace to you

 

[CalTech]

False, I detest the CoC. I have been a faithful member of independent, fundamental Baptist churches all of my Christian life. When people claim that the Bible does not speak to an issue but it actually does, I challenge their claims biblically.

Greetings,

AMEN!
Excuse me what is the CoC?

 

[canadyjd]

Wrong. They are not the logical conclusion of my statements.

Those verses are only two of numerous passages that establish the premier importance of burial in Scripture. Those verses can only be interpreted correctly when they are put in the proper context of all of the rest of the Bible's teaching about burial.

BTW, just saying “wrong” is a poor debate tactic.

You have a habit of deflecting and avoiding tough questions about your positions.

I find that usually happens when someone realizes their argument is weak and they are losing the debate.

peace to you

 

[canadyjd]

Greetings,

AMEN!
Excuse me what is the CoC?

CoC means Church of Christ ie the denomination.

peace to you

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Burial is of “Premier importance”? Really?

O please explain exactly what is at stake if the burial is not done properly? If I am cremated?

Is salvation at stake? Is God not able to resurrect my body if it’s burned to ash?

If salvation is not at stake then burial does not rise to the level of “premier importance”.

peace to you

The wisest man ever (other than Jesus) wrote under divine inspiration just how important burial is:

Ecclesiastes 6:3
If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

BTW, just saying “wrong” is a poor debate tactic.

You have a habit of deflecting and avoiding tough questions about your positions.

I find that usually happens when someone realizes their argument is weak and they are losing the debate.

peace to you

You have misrepresented me by saying that I said something when I did not say any such thing. Saying that you are "wrong" is fully the right thing to do when someone misstates your statements.

 

[canadyjd]

The wisest man ever (other than Jesus) wrote under divine inspiration just how important burial is:

Ecclesiastes 6:3
If a man beget an hundred children, and live many years, so that the days of his years be many, and his soul be not filled with good, and also that he have no burial; I say, that an untimely birth is better than he.

I suspect the wisest man ever would be able to answer a question directly. I’ll try again.

You claim burial is of “premier importance”

What is at stake if the burial isn’t proper? What happens if someone is cremated?

Are you able to answer directly or will you continue to deflect and avoid?

peace to you

 

[Salty]

six hour warning -
This thread will be closed no sooner than 6 am EDT / 3 am PDT

 

[Van]

Your vitriol that you often spew when you interact with people on this board speaks volumes about you. I will not waste time interacting with you further.

Thanks

 

[JonC]

This challenge was not to you. Someone else made a claim. That person needs to back up his claim with direct quotes from what he claims I said.

It does not matter who you challenged. If you want a private conversation do not post on a public forum.

You equated Christians to the "dead" who bury their own dead.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

You equated Christians to the "dead" who bury their own dead.

No, I did not do that. You have made wrong inferences from what I said.

Christ was and is God. Whatever He said about any subject is indisputably divine revelation about that subject. Those verses therefore do show divine perspective about burial. That was my first point.

I did not do any such wrong thing as equating Christians with "the dead." You have wrongly come to that view about what I said by your connecting in your mind the two sentences that I wrote as if the second was directly and only based on the first.

It was not directly tied to the first sentence because the second sentence provided much additional basis for what I said in my second sentence.

We can disagree about what those verses reveal about burial but there is no legitimate disputing that they are divine revelation about burial that does speak to the importance of burial.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I suspect the wisest man ever would be able to answer a question directly. I’ll try again.

You claim burial is of “premier importance”

What is at stake if the burial isn’t proper? What happens if someone is cremated?

Are you able to answer directly or will you continue to deflect and avoid?

peace to you

So, if someone does not answer whatever questions you throw at them, that proves that the divine revelation that they have pointed attention to is immaterial? Are you interested in what God has to say about a subject or "winning" arguments by raising questions that cannot be properly answered without first carefully and thoroughly considering what Scripture actually has to say about the subject?

Does Ecclesiastes 6:3 speak about the importance of burial? If it does, are you going to accept that it is divine revelation that shows the importance of burial?

 

[JonC]

No, I did not do that. You have made wrong inferences from what I said.

Christ was and is God. Whatever He said about any subject is indisputably divine revelation about that subject. Those verses therefore do show divine perspective about burial. That was my first point.

I did not do any such wrong thing as equating Christians with "the dead." You have wrongly come to that view about what I said by your connecting in your mind the two sentences that I wrote as if the second was directly and only based on the first.

It was not directly tied to the first sentence because the second sentence provided much additional basis for what I said in my second sentence.

We can disagree about what those verses reveal about burial but there is no legitimate disputing that they are divine revelation about burial that does speak to the importance of burial.

But you are adding to Scripture. The passage is not talking about burial. It is talking about following Christ.

And "burial" was laying a body in a tomb, waiting a year, washing the bones and placing them in an ossuary (a tradition we see throughout the Old Testament as well).

That said, Scripture does not advocate one form over another. It does not prohibit embalming, cremation, burial under the ground, using caskets, etc.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

But you are adding to Scripture. The passage is not talking about burial. It is talking about following Christ.

And "burial" was laying a body in a tomb, waiting a year, washing the bones and placing them in an ossuary (a tradition we see throughout the Old Testament as well).

That said, Scripture does not advocate one form over another. It does not prohibit embalming, cremation, burial under the ground, using caskets, etc.

Really? I am adding to Scripture? You claim that passage is not talking about such and such. Does the passage say explicitly that it is "about" such and such? If not, you are the one who is adding to Scripture by asserting what you do.

Furthermore, you are detracting from Scripture. The Spirit inspired the recording of that statement from Jesus. Jesus did talk about burial in those statements. Those verses are about burial because Jesus talked about it.

You can say that the main point is not about such and such, but you do not have any Bible to treat the text as if He did not say anything about burial at all in the text.

 

[Darrell C]

You will have to restate what you are saying here because I cannot follow what you have said.

One of the members mentioned eternal judgment, and the fact that unbelievers are described as being burned up, which could be viewed by some as cremation. But the fate of unbelievers is not relevant to the disposition of believers, therefore it is not relevant to the discussion and cannot be used as support for one side or the other.

That would, in part, make the "dead" burying their dead equally irrelevant to concluding how believers lay their dead to rest.

But there is a far more important aspect to the quoted passage I would introduce: there were no Christians in Christ's day. The first Christians are found in Acts 2 when the Spirit is given to men.

The man was a disciple, to be sure, and the command is to follow Christ, however, because the Mystery of the Gospel yet remained unrevealed, I would discount the quoted passage based on that as well.

I will say that what is relevant is that Christ does speak of burial, and that this would be an indication that in regards to laying loved ones to rest it would be burial. I would also say that the point that we do not "bury" exactly as they did is something that should be given more consideration.

Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, G2290 and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

I would also think that if burying someone according to a Biblical standard is critical to Christians today, then embalming should another facet of modern burial that should accompany the rejection of cremation.

Lastly, those that are cremated are still buried. My wife's father, for example, was laid to rest beside her mother, who was not cremated.


God bless.

 

[Salty]

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