1 Corinthians 6:16-17

[Van]

The question for study is why do so many translations alter the passive grammar and translate the word as meaning joins himself.

Look at the context of these verses. What do they tell us?

Paul uses the same phrasing:
he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her
he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him

The grammatical construction allows for either a passive or middle understanding of the participle so we must look to context for an answer.

The context is focused on the volition of those involved. A middle voice. Are they forced to go into a harlot {passive} NO. Are they drawn to the harlot {middle} YES. It is the same with Christ we are not forced, we are drawn to Him. Only God saves but He only saves the willing.

They were not forced {passive} to do either of these things. We see this view carried out in the next verse where they are to actively reject sin.

Thanks for the well stated argument for joined himself. The false doctrine in view is that if we put our faith in Christ, we join ourselves spiritually to Christ. So if that is the bogus contextual view, then the "joined himself" interpretation seems to justify changing the grammar to middle voice.

If you look back to 1 Corinthians 6:15, you see that Paul is acting upon a member of Christ's body and joining it to a harlot. Thus the passive voice in verse 16 and 17.

 

[Van]

1 Corinthians 6:17 (interpretive translation)
Yet the one being joined to the Lord is united with His Spirit. We are in His Spirit and His Spirit is in us.

 

[Silverhair]

Thanks for the well stated argument for joined himself. The false doctrine in view is that if we put our faith in Christ, we join ourselves spiritually to Christ. So if that is the bogus contextual view, then the "joined himself" interpretation seems to justify changing the grammar to middle voice.

If you look back to 1 Corinthians 6:15, you see that Paul is acting upon a member of Christ's body and joining it to a harlot. Thus the passive voice in verse 16 and 17.

Actually it is because of verse 15 that we see the middle voice required. Paul is saying that you are in Christ because of your faith in Him. But if you chose to go to a harlot you are turning from the faith that you chose when you turned to Christ Jesus. If we use the passive voice then you are saying that those in Christ were being forced to go to the harlot and further that those who are in Christ were forced to be there.

When a person willfully sins, goes with a harlot, it is because they agree with what it represents. Live for self.
When a person willfully rejects sin, trusts in Christ Jesus, it is because they agree with what it represents. Live for God.

That is the contrast that Paul is presenting here and that is why we see "Flee sexual immorality." in verse 18. they have to make a choice, it is not made for them.

 

[Van]

Actually it is because of verse 15 that we see the middle voice required. Paul is saying that you are in Christ because of your faith in Him. But if you chose to go to a harlot you are turning from the faith that you chose when you turned to Christ Jesus. If we use the passive voice then you are saying that those in Christ were being forced to go to the harlot and further that those who are in Christ were forced to be there.

When a person willfully sins, goes with a harlot, it is because they agree with what it represents. Live for self.
When a person willfully rejects sin, trusts in Christ Jesus, it is because they agree with what it represents. Live for God.

That is the contrast that Paul is presenting here and that is why we see "Flee sexual immorality." in verse 18. they have to make a choice, it is not made for them.

As I said, the passage agrees with the grammar, and being joined by someone other than ourselves. Paul is not and never says you are in Christ because of your faith. God does suggest we are "in Christ" because our faith was credited by God as righteousness. We are not in Christ on the basis of our meritorious faith, for that would make salvation on the basis of our work, but as Romans 9:16 teaches salvation depends of God's gracious gift of crediting our faith as righteousness.

Philippians 3:9
and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, ​

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually it is because of verse 15 that we see the middle voice required. Paul is saying that you are in Christ because of your faith in Him. But if you chose to go to a harlot you are turning from the faith that you chose when you turned to Christ Jesus. If we use the passive voice then you are saying that those in Christ were being forced to go to the harlot and further that those who are in Christ were forced to be there.

When a person willfully sins, goes with a harlot, it is because they agree with what it represents. Live for self.
When a person willfully rejects sin, trusts in Christ Jesus, it is because they agree with what it represents. Live for God.

That is the contrast that Paul is presenting here and that is why we see "Flee sexual immorality." in verse 18. they have to make a choice, it is not made for them.

Vs 15, joined is the following

Verb, Present, passive, participle, singular nominative masculine

There is no middle voice. Let’s please not try to insert something that is not there.

If paul wanted to use middle voice he would have..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

As I said, the passage agrees with the grammar, and being joined by someone other than ourselves. Paul is not and never says you are in Christ because of your faith. God does suggest we are "in Christ" because our faith was credited by God as righteousness. We are not in Christ on the basis of our meritorious faith, for that would make salvation on the basis of our work, but as Romans 9:16 teaches salvation depends of God's gracious gift of crediting our faith as righteousness.

Philippians 3:9
and may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith, ​

Faith is not a work. When you are in need of desperate help, and become bancrupt of anything you can do to help yourself. You either chose to deny your desperation and look to sin to help you. Or your place your faith is another person to save you.

Trusting in Christ to save you is not work. Whoever came up with this idea that saving faith is meritorious does not understand the gospel.

 

[Silverhair]

Vs 15, joined is the following

Verb, Present, passive, participle, singular nominative masculine

There is no middle voice. Let’s please not try to insert something that is not there.

If paul wanted to use middle voice he would have..

Actually joined in vs 16 and 17 can be in the middle or passive voice depending upon the context. That is why when you look at 1co 6.15-18 we find the context leads to middle understanding not passive. Either the person chooses to sin after they have chosen to trust in Christ or they are force to sin after they were forced to trust in Christ. Note vs 18 the person is to flee present - active - imperative.

What Paul is saying is that 1] you are now in Christ 2] why would you choose to sin 3] after you chose to trust in Him 4] so reject the sin. That is a middle voice understanding of the text.

 

[AustinC]

Faith is not a work. When you are in need of desperate help, and become bancrupt of anything you can do to help yourself. You either chose to deny your desperation and look to sin to help you. Or your place your faith is another person to save you.

Trusting in Christ to save you is not work. Whoever came up with this idea that saving faith is meritorious does not understand the gospel.

God already saves you, by grace. Your faith is an effect of God's salvation.
Anyone teaching that faith is the cause of salvation is worshipping faith as an idol and attempting to lower God down to an effected being that reacts to someone who "exercises" faith. Note that those who teach "exercising" faith, teach that it is indeed a work.

 

[37818]

God already saves you, by grace. Your faith is an effect of God's salvation.

Utter nonsense. The written word of God nowhere teaches that.

. . . that faith is the cause of salvation . . . .

Faith does not cause salvation. Faith is the reason God does the saving.

 

[Van]

Faith is not a work. When you are in need of desperate help, and become bancrupt of anything you can do to help yourself. You either chose to deny your desperation and look to sin to help you. Or your place your faith is another person to save you.

Trusting in Christ to save you is not work. Whoever came up with this idea that saving faith is meritorious does not understand the gospel.

Clearly faith is not "works" by which a person earns or merits reward.

 

[Silverhair]

God already saves you, by grace. Your faith is an effect of God's salvation.
Anyone teaching that faith is the cause of salvation is worshipping faith as an idol and attempting to lower God down to an effected being that reacts to someone who "exercises" faith. Note that those who teach "exercising" faith, teach that it is indeed a work.

Then I guess that Paul did not know what he was talking about.
Rom_3:22 the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ
Rom 3:28 we conclude that a man is justified by faith
Gal 2:16 man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ
Gal 3:2 by the hearing of faith
Rom_10:17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God
Tit 3:7 that having been justified by His grace
Eph_2:8-9 by grace saved through faith not works
Rom 4:5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness,
Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Rom 10:9 if you confess...and believe... you will be saved.

Anyone that denies that faith is the God required condition for their salvation is denying scripture. They have chosen their man-made theology over the bible.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Actually joined in vs 16 and 17 can be in the middle or passive voice depending upon the context. That is why when you look at 1co 6.15-18 we find the context leads to middle understanding not passive. Either the person chooses to sin after they have chosen to trust in Christ or they are force to sin after they were forced to trust in Christ. Note vs 18 the person is to flee present - active - imperative.

What Paul is saying is that 1] you are now in Christ 2] why would you choose to sin 3] after you chose to trust in Him 4] so reject the sin. That is a middle voice understanding of the text.

The passive voice is saying that the subject is being acted on.

The middle voice is what it means, in the middle.. A man can not be joined to a protitute unless the prostitute allows. It takes both parties hence the term middle (in the center)

while the active voice is the subject is doing the action.

I can not join myself to Christ. I do not have that power. Something must happen for me to be joined to Christ. At the same time, Christ is not going to force me to be joined to him. It takes an action on my part (faith - in faith i must receive his gift)

Some with a prostitute. Unless I am going to rape her.. I can not actively join myself to a prostitute. at the same time, she can not force me to sleep with her. It also takes an action on my part

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God already saves you, by grace. Your faith is an effect of God's salvation.
Anyone teaching that faith is the cause of salvation is worshipping faith as an idol and attempting to lower God down to an effected being that reacts to someone who "exercises" faith. Note that those who teach "exercising" faith, teach that it is indeed a work.

For BY grace we HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH

remove faith from the equation. the equation fails

To say we can be saved apart from faith is to call scripture in error.

John 3 says Jesus was sent to die for the world. That whoever believes (FAITH) in him will not perish but has everlasting life.

God is sent to draw us to him and offer us his gift. He will not force it on you.

And you will NEVER accept it without repenting and having faith in his word

Those who teach faith of any type is earning salvation are in the wrong.. The ONLY way faith can be earning is if our faith is in ourself and our deeds..

 

[AustinC]

For BY grace we HAVE BEEN SAVED THROUGH FAITH

remove faith from the equation. the equation fails

To say we can be saved apart from faith is to call scripture in error.

John 3 says Jesus was sent to die for the world. That whoever believes (FAITH) in him will not perish but has everlasting life.

God is sent to draw us to him and offer us his gift. He will not force it on you.

And you will NEVER accept it without repenting and having faith in his word

Those who teach faith of any type is earning salvation are in the wrong.. The ONLY way faith can be earning is if our faith is in ourself and our deeds..

You need to read the entire passage so you grasp that faith is an effect, caused by God's gracious salvation. "Even when we were dead..."

Ephesians 2:1-10

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God is the cause of your salvation. Faith is the effect of what God has done.

If you flip it the other way, you reject what Paul is saying and create a different means of salvation from what God states in scripture.

 

[37818]

You need to read the entire passage so you grasp that faith is an effect, caused by God's gracious salvation. "Even when we were dead..."

Ephesians 2:1-10

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God is the cause of your salvation. Faith is the effect of what God has done.

If you flip it the other way, you reject what Paul is saying and create a different means of salvation from what God states in scripture.

Your understanding of "through faith" is simply wrong.
The gift is the salvation which one's faith precedes.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You need to read the entire passage so you grasp that faith is an effect, caused by God's gracious salvation. "Even when we were dead..."

Ephesians 2:1-10

And you were dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

God is the cause of your salvation. Faith is the effect of what God has done.

If you flip it the other way, you reject what Paul is saying and create a different means of salvation from what God states in scripture.

Your right, God is the cause of my salvation

But as the passage says, It is by Grace (gods work) through faith.

Your trying to remove faith from the equation.

Paul did not say it is by grace we have been saved, not of works.

He is it is by grace through FAITH not works.

There in the very passage, He separates faith as a work.

Why would you be afraid of earning your salvation by becoming bankrupt. getting on your knees in faith and calling to God?

no one has ever been able to answer this for me.

 

[AustinC]

Your right, God is the cause of my salvation

But as the passage says, It is by Grace (gods work) through faith.

Your trying to remove faith from the equation.

Paul did not say it is by grace we have been saved, not of works.

He is it is by grace through FAITH not works.

There in the very passage, He separates faith as a work.

Why would you be afraid of earning your salvation by becoming bankrupt. getting on your knees in faith and calling to God?

no one has ever been able to answer this for me.

Re-read the text. When did God extend his grace to you...when you were still dead or when you were alive?
If you say that faith precedes salvation and you say that you had faith while you were still dead, then you must say that faith is from your own flesh and not from God.

It seems you are not actually reading the entire passage. Instead, you are ignoring everything except one verse and then you are stating that your opinion on one verse, out of context, is the correct opinion.

You need to exegete the entire passage if you wish to have any legitimacy in your claim.

 

[AustinC]

Paul says in verse 4-5 that God saved by grace, even when we were dead in our trespasses and sins.

He then tells us we are seated with Christ in the heavenlies. Then in verse 8 he introduced salvation by grace, through faith...which is NOT of ourselves, but is a Gift from God.

Question, does God's gift of faith come before God's gracious salvation or is it given immediately upon his gracious salvation so that you would actually, really believe what just happened?

 

[BasketFinch]

How about this. John 1.

Jesus was God ( Immanuel ="God with us". Psalm 46, Isaiah 7, Matthew 1). God is a spirit, holy spirit, that indwells us.
What I'd the believer being indwelt by holy spirit is what Paul is talking about.

 

[AustinC]

God saved us by grace and gives us faith to believe.
Here Peter reiterates this truth:

He was foreknown before the foundation of the world but was made manifest in the last times for the sake of you who through him are believers in God, who raised him from the dead and gave him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.
~ 1 Peter 1:20-21

Faith is a glorious gift of God which confirms what God has graciously done.