Flood Evidence Clearly Seen by Geologist

[AustinC]

The only possible debate is whether it covered the entire globe or the inhabitable earth. That said, it is a pretty meaningless debate.

Peter is pretty clear. Only 8 humans survived.
The debate is really whether we will take what God's Word tells us and believe it or whether we will not believe God's Word because intellectuals tell us it couldn't have happened that way.
So the debate is about faith in God's Word over faith in human intellectual reasoning.

 

[Aaron]

Yet there were civilizations still extant at the same time.

You see? There's no mistake about what Genesis says. Everything under heaven was covered.

The issue isn't what it's saying. The issue is whom one believes--Moses or the speculations of Darwinistic archaeologists.

 

[BasketFinch]

You see? There's no mistake about what Genesis says. Everything under heaven was covered.

The issue isn't what it's saying. The issue is whom one believes--Moses or the speculations of Darwinistic archaeologists.

That comment has nothing to do with the fact there were civilizations of record during the presumed period of the deluge.

 

[AustinC]

That comment has nothing to do with the fact there were civilizations of record during the presumed period of the deluge.

The civilizations that have flood stories are all descendants of Noah's family. It is not surprising to have so many of these stories. In fact, these stories are confirming the Bible.

 

[JonC]

Peter is pretty clear. Only 8 humans survived.
The debate is really whether we will take what God's Word tells us and believe it or whether we will not believe God's Word because intellectuals tell us it couldn't have happened that way.
So the debate is about faith in God's Word over faith in human intellectual reasoning.

That is not what I mean. I know only 8 survived.

What I mean is whether the language means water covered the entire earth or the inhabited earth. I believe the former, but for the sake of honesty I cannot dismiss the latter offhand.

 

[AustinC]

That is not what I mean. I know only 8 survived.

What I mean is whether the language means water covered the entire earth or the inhabited earth. I believe the former, but for the sake of honesty I cannot dismiss the latter offhand.

I will take what is said at face value.

Genesis 7:19-21

And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep. And all flesh died that moved on the earth, birds, livestock, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth, and all mankind.

 

[JonC]

I will take what is said at face value.

Genesis 7:19-21

And the waters prevailed so mightily on the earth that all the high mountains under the whole heaven were covered. The waters prevailed above the mountains, covering them fifteen cubits deep. And all flesh died that moved on the earth, birds, livestock, beasts, all swarming creatures that swarm on the earth, and all mankind.

I do as well. I'm just saying we cannot declare the view it was the inhabited earth that was destroyed.

Kinda like Calvinists who believe Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world means the elect in the world.

 

[AustinC]

I do as well. I'm just saying we cannot declare the view it was the inhabited earth that was destroyed.

Kinda like Calvinists who believe Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world means the elect in the world.

I have no idea what you are attempting to argue here.

 

[JonC]

I have no idea what you are attempting to argue here.

I am not arguing. I am saying the verse could mean the flood covered the inhabited world or the entire Earth. I believe the latter.

 

[AustinC]

I am not arguing. I am saying the verse could mean the flood covered the inhabited world or the entire Earth. I believe the latter.

Did you even read the verses? There is only one way to read it since the water is 15 cubits over the highest mountain. To hold to the first view is silly.

 

[JonC]

Did you even read the verses? There is only one way to read it since the water is 15 cubits over the highest mountain. To hold to the first view is silly.

Yes, I read the verse. And I agree the water covered the Earth. That said, I was unaware the highest mountain in Earth was in the area Noah lived. But I don't keep up with those things.

So if in fact the highest mountain on Earth is in the middle east then you are correct that there is only one possible interpretation of the passage. If not then you are, obviously, wrong ...even though we agree on interpretation.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This debate has gone on for years. The flood wasn't a global , entire earth, event.

Other cultures have a recorded history during the time the deluge is said to have occurred.

The confusion arises when the text reads as the waters covered the face of the earth. Leading us to think the whole planet was covered.

If we read about Cain, we'll see a similar picture in Genesis 4.
"Behold, you have driven me out this day from the face of the earth."
Genesis 4:14 Behold, this day You have driven me from the face of the earth, and from Your face I will be hidden; I will be a fugitive and a wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me."

While the Hebrew of verse 14 refers to ground.
Genesis 4:14 Hebrew Text Analysis

Cain lifted off into space then? No.


eh-rets
Strong's Hebrew: 776. אָ֫רֶץ (erets) -- earth, land

Gen 7: 19 - 9 And the waters prevailed exceedingly on the earth, and all the high hills under the whole heaven were covered. 20 The waters prevailed fifteen cubits upward, and the mountains were covered.

Anyone who understands how water works. would understand if the tallest mountain on earth was exceeded by 15 cubits, then the whole earth was covered..

it also says all flesh was killed. if there were parts of the earth not covered. then all flesh would not be kille.d they would simply find high ground as we do in floods today.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Yet there were civilizations still extant at the same time.

then the bible is a fraud. and can not be trusted.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The only possible debate is whether it covered the entire globe or the inhabitable earth. That said, it is a pretty meaningless debate.

that is not even truly a debate.. Scripture is clear.

It covered the highest mountain by 15 cubits (gen 7)

by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. ( 2 Peter 3)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That is not what I mean. I know only 8 survived.

What I mean is whether the language means water covered the entire earth or the inhabited earth. I believe the former, but for the sake of honesty I cannot dismiss the latter offhand.

you would have to see the word inhabited earth.

and even then, the scripture record shows a whole earth flood.

The only debate is people who do not want there to be a whole earth flood for whatever reason inspite of the evidence to contrary

 

[Eternally Grateful]

there is evidence of a whole earth flood all over the earth.. A good souce if you want to look is earth catastrophic past by Dr Andrew Snelling.. While I am not sure I agree with all he says and his conclusion, the science and facts he shows of the evidence of the flood. including the fossil record are hard to argue against

 

[JonC]

that is not even truly a debate.. Scripture is clear.

It covered the highest mountain by 15 cubits (gen 7)

by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. ( 2 Peter 3)

I agree with your interpretation. I disagree that it is not debatable simply because it could mean the known and inhabited world.

 

[Mathetes66]

See red bold.
It's not literal. It's figurative. Note that if you are taking it literally, you are talking about a city in Iran.

Thanks for sharing your opinion. BTW, the ancient city of Babylon was south of present day Baghdad, in Iraq. You again chose to ignore the whole quote and all that went on in those verses & only chose to isolate this mysterious city of Babylon the great & say it wasn't meaning a literal city & if it was, it was an ancient city in Iraq. That is your choice. Yet when one looks at the full context of chapters 16 and 17, we see that there is symbolic language used to describe this MYSTERY, Babylon the great, the great city described as a prostitute. But then the 'mystery' is disclosed, uncovered, revealed as to which city this actually is.

The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” 6And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.a

When I saw her, I marveled greatly. 7But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. 8The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pitb and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. 9This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. 11As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. 13These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast. 14They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”

15And the angelc said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. 16And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, 17for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

When I saw her, I marveled greatly. 7But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her.

Here the MYSTERY of this specific city is 'disclosed, uncovered, revealed.' And its not the ancient city of Babylon in Iraq.
This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

What city has been built on seven mountains? Read the multitude of commentators both past and present & the concensus is almost unanimous as to the identity of this mysterious great city of babylon in the future, built upon seven hills. Which city in the world has worldwide influence today, always seeking for peace, affecting the kings & leaders of nations today?

Who can chastise the United Nations and get a hearing there? (

) Who can bring peace & unity to all the 'First Nations' of Native Americans in North America? Who can tell the world leaders that the people in Ukraine want peace & they all listen? (

) Who is able to unite world religious leaders in signing a climate change appeal for the whole world? (

)

A new global communications report calls 'a certain individual who resides in a city on 7 hills' the most influential world leader on Twitter, who has the second-largest following among world leaders on the fast-paced social media network.

Forbes magazine called this 'certain individual who resides in a city built on 7 hills' the 5th most influential person in the world.

I will stop here as much more can be presented. I stand in good company both from the the ancient past & with present commentators of these passages as to the identity of this mystery city.

'Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman...'

 

[AustinC]

Thanks for sharing your opinion. BTW, the ancient city of Babylon was south of present day Baghdad, in Iraq. You again chose to ignore the whole quote and all that went on in those verses & only chose to isolate this mysterious city of Babylon the great & say it wasn't meaning a literal city & if it was, it was an ancient city in Iraq. That is your choice. Yet when one looks at the full context of chapters 16 and 17, we see that there is symbolic language used to describe this MYSTERY, Babylon the great, the great city described as a prostitute. But then the 'mystery' is disclosed, uncovered, revealed as to which city this actually is.

The woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and jewels and pearls, holding in her hand a golden cup full of abominations and the impurities of her sexual immorality. 5And on her forehead was written a name of mystery: “Babylon the great, mother of prostitutes and of earth’s abominations.” 6And I saw the woman, drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus.a

When I saw her, I marveled greatly. 7But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her. 8The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to rise from the bottomless pitb and go to destruction. And the dwellers on earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world will marvel to see the beast, because it was and is not and is to come. 9This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; 10they are also seven kings, five of whom have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come, and when he does come he must remain only a little while. 11As for the beast that was and is not, it is an eighth but it belongs to the seven, and it goes to destruction. 12And the ten horns that you saw are ten kings who have not yet received royal power, but they are to receive authority as kings for one hour, together with the beast. 13These are of one mind, and they hand over their power and authority to the beast. 14They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with him are called and chosen and faithful.”

15And the angelc said to me, “The waters that you saw, where the prostitute is seated, are peoples and multitudes and nations and languages. 16And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire, 17for God has put it into their hearts to carry out his purpose by being of one mind and handing over their royal power to the beast, until the words of God are fulfilled. 18And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

When I saw her, I marveled greatly. 7But the angel said to me, “Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman, and of the beast with seven heads and ten horns that carries her.

Here the MYSTERY of this specific city is 'disclosed, uncovered, revealed.' And its not the ancient city of Babylon in Iraq.
This calls for a mind with wisdom: the seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman is seated; And the woman that you saw is the great city that has dominion over the kings of the earth.”

What city has been built on seven mountains? Read the multitude of commentators both past and present & the concensus is almost unanimous as to the identity of this mysterious great city of babylon in the future, built upon seven hills. Which city in the world has worldwide influence today, always seeking for peace, affecting the kings & leaders of nations today?

Who can chastise the United Nations and get a hearing there? (

) Who can bring peace & unity to all the 'First Nations' of Native Americans in North America? Who can tell the world leaders that the people in Ukraine want peace & they all listen? (

) Who is able to unite world religious leaders in signing a climate change appeal for the whole world? (

)

A new global communications report calls 'a certain individual who resides in a city on 7 hills' the most influential world leader on Twitter, who has the second-largest following among world leaders on the fast-paced social media network.

Forbes magazine called this 'certain individual who resides in a city built on 7 hills' the 5th most influential person in the world.

I will stop here as much more can be presented. I stand in good company both from the the ancient past & with present commentators of these passages as to the identity of this mystery city.

'Why do you marvel? I will tell you the mystery of the woman...'

For John's audience, the city is Rome.
Babylon is about the demonic immorality of corporate and oligarchical greed and perversion. Babylon could be New York City, London, Paris, Shanghai, or Dubai. It could be Islam or Atheism. You can certainly choose your version. It doesn't bother me.

 

[Aaron]

That comment has nothing to do with the fact there were civilizations of record during the presumed period of the deluge.

Uh, yeah it does. It says Moses says you're full of beans.