Ye must be born again! 2

[Brightfame52]

math66

So when we look at the FULL CONTEXT of John chapter 8, we see that Jesus is speaking to spiritually dead people & they are all hearing His voice

My point exactly, Spiritually dead people, which we all are by nature, cannot spiritually hear and understand Gods word ! Thats in agreement with Paul here 1 Cor 2:14

14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know[spiritually understand] them, because they are spiritually discerned.

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:7 Ye must be born again 5

The Necessity of the Elect to be born again in order to do anything spiritually good and acceptable to God, lies in the facts, that not only are they dead to God by nature, but also because they as well as all men have hearts of stone Ezk 36:26

26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

All men by nature, jew or gentile have stony hearts ! The word stony here means perverse and hard !

Perverse means:

willfully determined or disposed to go counter to what is expected or desired; contrary.

wayward or cantankerous,persistent or obstinate in what is wrong.

turned away from or rejecting what is right, good, or proper; wicked or corrupt.

Jesus said once of mens hearts Matt 17:17

Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and perverse generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? bring him hither to me.

This indicates that that man's heart by nature is faithless !

Now remember what Jesus also said about the stony heart hearers of His Gospel . Matt 13:20-21

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

At best they can become a false believer, but they shall eventually fall away /apostatize ! But Jesus tells us why Look"Yet hath he not root in himself"

Now exactly what does that mean ? It means they had no real change of heart by New Birth, they still had the same stony heart they had by nature, they just were able to be outwardly reformed.

The same heart is seen here from the lukean account Luke 8:13

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

You see that ? They for a time believe or as Matt wrote it receive the word with Joy Matt 13:20. But notice what shall happen to them, in time of persecution, suffering, they fall away !

Its the same word here 1 Tim 4:1

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from G868 the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Now why do they fall away or depart the Faith ? Jesus told us in Lk 8:13, because they still had hearts of stone, no root, no Christ ! Remember what Paul wrote to the Gentile believers, lest they become over confident because of the fall of the jews Rom 11:18

Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

Its only because of Christ's Grace communicated to us in New Birth that we become believers, and there is no reason to boast !

This falling away or departing from the faith was common in first century Christianity, and what is the writer of Hebrews points out here Heb 10:38-39

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

The writer identifies them that draw back as a separate group, He knows they are those Jesus spoke of here Lk 8:13

13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

So those who draw back Heb 10:38-39 are no more than stony heart hearers or believers who had no root in themselves, no Christ in them by New Birth. You see those who are given True Faith to believe on Christ, in addition with that is given the ability to suffer for His Truth Phil 1:29

29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;8

So in time of temptation for His Word, they shall not fall away !

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:7 Ye must be born again 6

Acts 7:51

51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

By nature ladies and gentlemen, both the elect and non elect are uncircumcised in heart and ears.

Now I know Stephen here is speaking to jews, but that does not matter gentiles, we by nature are no better than they are ! All men by nature have uncircumcised hearts and ears and cannot stand the Word of Truth ! Its enmity to Truth ! All hearts of men resist the Holy Spirit. That word resist means II.to be adverse, oppose, strive against.

If we deny this, its because of pride ! Our Hearts being uncircumcised is darkness , they are covered to Divine Instruction.

This Truth Necessitates New Birth ! 8

 

[Mathetes66]

As you typically do, you once again pull one sentence out of the CONTEXT of my post & make it look like what you wrote is what I meant and you once again prove your eisogetical hermeneutics being in error. As I said in the full context of my post, spiritually dead people did hear the gospel preached by Jesus & DID believe by faith. Others hardened their hearts & shut their ears from hearing. So please STOP quoting me out of context like your habit is of doing that with
scripture like you did with my post, going out of the context & quoting another verse out of its context to make a pretext. Spiritually dead people are not like a dead body that can't respond. And as I repeatedly showed with case after case with Jesus, people do exhibit the sorrow over sins that is according to God, and as Jesus said repeatedly in case after case: YOUR FAITH has made you well or saved you leading to forgiveness of sins.

Spiritually dead people came by multitudes to be baptized by John the Baptist, confessing their sins & looking to the Lamb of God that takes away the sins of the world (no text ever says anywhere in the Bible with these added words: the sins of the (elect in) the world. It was only those who hardenened their own hearts & shut their own ears & became dull in their understanding, such as some of the Pharisees, Sadducces, scribes & lawyers. These were spiritually dead as well but they weren't that way UNTIL in jealousy they DEVELOPED those unbelieving traits. Others didn't & responded in sorrow bringing about repentance that LED TO their being saved by God.

To be spiritually dead does NOT mean to be without the faculties of intellect, affection or will. Our minds, emotions & wills still function. We are still created in the image & likeness of God, although it has been corrupted & needs regeneration by God. So to compare a spiritually dead person with a physically dead body is ILLOGICAL. Paul doesn't allow that false interpretation in Ephesians chapter 2. Man is still self-aware & has personality & further possesses a sense of conscience & performs moral decision-making. Eternity has been put into man’s heart” (Eccl. 3:11). And some people so easily FORGET what God said concerning mankind AFTER THE FALL, that is a spiritual TRUTH to ponder & believe like all biblical doctrine. And it is this:
Gen 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of us in knowing good AND evil.
God never wanted man to know evil experientially but only to shun it & obey God. Man does not just know evil only but now has the capacity to know both good & evil & the ability to choose one or the other.
God has put WITHIN man the knowledge that God exists & has displayed all of creation that shows His eternal Deity & omnipotence, so people are left without excuse. (Romans chapter 1) Also:

Acts 17:24-31 The God who made the world & everything in it, being Lord of heaven & earth, does not live in temples made by man, 25nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He himself gives to all mankind life & breath & everything. 26And He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined allotted periods & the boundaries of their dwelling place, 27so that they should seek God & perhaps feel their way toward him & find Him. Yet He is actually not far from each one of us, 28for “‘In Him we live & move & have our being’; as even some of your own poets have said, “‘For we are indeed His offspring.’

29Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the Divine Being is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art & imagination of man. 30The times of ignorance God overlooked, but now He COMMANDS ALL PEOPLE EVERYWHERE TO REPENT, 31because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness by a Man whom He has appointed & of this He has given assurance to all by raising Him from the dead.”

Paul plainly teaches in Scripture to pagan, spiritually dead people who worshiped idols, that God Himself made all the nations on planet earth & SOVEREIGNLY DETERMINED the chronological time of their existence & even the places where they would dwell for HIS DIVINE DECREED PURPOSE OF...WHAT?

Read it again slowly, meditatively. 'Sanctify them in the truth. Your word is truth.'

God's divine decree for doing all these things is SO THAT ALL THESE PEOPLE IN ALL THESE NATIONS & IN ALL THE PLACES OVER ALL THE EARTH THAT THEY WOULD DWELL IN & OVER ALL TIME IN ALL GENERATIONS:
SHOULD SEEK GOD & FEEL THEIR WAY TOWARD HIM & FIND HIM. HE IS NOT FAR FROM EACH OF ONE OF US. God can overlook the ignorance of worshiping idols so long as all people everywhere obey His command to repent & believe in the One He has raised from the dead.

THAT has been God's sovereign decree & it applies to all people in every nation over all this inhabited earth & down through the corridors of time since the beginning. The full context leaves NNE out. All people in all localities, in all nations over the face of the earth & all people down through chronological time have been sovereignly designed to seek after God & feel after Him to try & find Him. Man has an innate desire to worship something beyond him. God put it there. Man has an innate knowledge of good & evil, though spiritually dead.

As I showed before, spiritually dead people can do things that are according to the holy laws of God, they can help the poor & those in need, they can have compassion & love their wives & children & some even giving their own physical life up as spiritually dead people to save their family. But they lack the eternal life of God & a relationship with the Eternal One. That is why the Holy Spirit convicts & convinces the whole world, not just the elect of sin, righteousness & judgment. Jesus repeatedly says to those spiritually dead people who hear His voice (John 5:23-25), even now & repent & believe, eternal life. THEIR FAITH has saved them, THEIR FAITH has made them well.

 

[Brightfame52]

mathetos

spiritually dead people did hear the gospel preached by Jesus & DID believe by faith

No they didnt, unless you mean they heard it with a natural ear, which case it means nothing Spiritually. Jesus told natural, spiritually dead jews, this Jn 8:42-43,47

42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

Then Jesus makes it plain who does hear spiritually the words of Christ:

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

He that is of God means Born of God, thats who hears spiritually the word of God.

So you are in opposition to Christs own words saying spiritually dead people hear the word and believe !

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:7 Ye must be born again 7

Another reason why the Elect need to be born again, all men by nature to the exclusion of none have impenitent hearts Rom 2:5

5 But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;

The word impenitent is the greek word ametanoētos:

I.admitting no change of mind, unrepented, impenitent

Folks that is what repentance is, a change of mind. Here is the word repentance as Per Lk 24:47

47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Its the word metanoia:

I.a change of mind, as it appears to one who repents, of a purpose he has formed or of something he has done

Folks by nature, no man alive has a repentant heart towards God as Per Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's impossible for any one to do who has not been given a New Heart from above !

Notice to whom Paul refers this comment to back up in Rom 2:5, lets look two verses prior Rom 2:3

3 And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?

This applies to all spiritually dead men, dead in trespasses and sins. Now listen, in a Lost state, with our native hard hearts, uncircumcised hearts, we can never truly repent towards God. This condition that man is in by nature, both elect and non elect sets the stage for the Necessity of the New Birth, in fact, if men were not regenerated before the Gospel is sent to them, there would be no conversions to God at all. If Their were no regenerate to hear the Gospel and Believe, Jesus would not have needed to send Preachers to Preach the Gospel. For no one would believe, no one would repent Acts 17:30

30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

Where does Repentance come from ? 1 Pet 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

It comes from being begotten again. This word is anagennaō:

I.
to produce again, be born again, born anew
II.
metaph. to have one's mind changed so that he lives a new life and one conformed to the will of God

That's it folks, it comes from above, from being born again. That's it, no other way can man have a repentant heart towards God Acts 20:21

21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:7 Ye must be born again 8

I have shown why God's Elect need to be born again, because they are by nature, as well as the non elect, are Spiritually Dead and have Uncircumcised hearts that cannot Savingly believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Now we will look at the many sayings, or phrases in scripture that mean or imply New Birth or Being Born Again.

Now the Term Circumcision of the Heart is one Deut 30:6

6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

That's why some men do Love God Rom 8:28

28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

1 Jn 4:19

19 We love him, because he first loved us.

Folks if God really Loved us in Christ, He by New Birth gives us a circumcised heart to love Him Back, This is a Circumcised Heart Rom 2:29

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

That's New Birth ! 8

 

[BasketFinch]

Matthew 13. Just one example of Jesus stating why he taught the good news in parables. So that not all would understand.
And come to repentance . Mark 4.

Luke 24 Jesus had to open the Disciples minds to let them understand his teaching.

With all the Bible versions out there, all the denominations, how given this, is anyone suppose to read and accept Jesus?

When he had to open the minds of his own Disciples before they were allowed to understand his parables about salvation? Parables, that he taught in exclusively, so that not all would understand and come to repentance. Mark 4

Worthy questions to consider I think. Especially when our fall was predestined by God/Jesus himself.

If not, why a forbidden tree in the garden God looked upon as part of his creation, and judged it good. But not perfect.

Having written the names down in his book of life, to be opened at the judgement, of those he'd save from sin and damnation before the foundation,creation, of the world. Before the fall happened. Before we existed. Before sin entered the world.

Satan doesn't judge us and send us to Hell. God does.

Aren't we asking then to be saved from that? And can only be saved if God calls us to him? "No one comes to me unless the father draws them."

And we can only understand the parable gospel to answer the call if God opens our understanding to .

That's why we are called, the elect of God.

God elected to save us. But not others.
Proverbs 16:4 The LORD has made all things for himself: yes, even the wicked for the day of evil.

I think these are hurdles that make seekers after the faith confused.
Or so they've told me.

 

[percho]

Where in John 3 did Jesus tell Nicodemus that man is spiritually dead?

Verse please.

 

[BasketFinch]

Where in John 3 did Jesus tell Nicodemus that man is spiritually dead?

Verse please.

Good question.

Where in scripture are those words spoken exactly? That we're spiritually dead?

 

[Brightfame52]

Where in John 3 did Jesus tell Nicodemus that man is spiritually dead?

Verse please.

Where in John 3 did Jesus tell Nicodemus that man isnt spiritually dead ? Verse please !

 

[percho]

Where in John 3 did Jesus tell Nicodemus that man isnt spiritually dead ? Verse please !

? Is to have spiritual life, to have, eternal life? If you are created and or have been given, eternal life, would you be able to die any kind of death?

How was Adam created?

for to vanity was the creation (?Man?) made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope, Rom 8:20 ----- Hope of what? What, hope, did God promise before times of ages? Titus 1:2 NET in hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the ages began. ------ ? ages?

Consider:
Hebrews 2:14 YLT Seeing, then, the children [Children of whom? What is man who was made a little lower than the angels of verses 6,7?] have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --

A little lower than the angels because of what? Why was, what is man, made a little lower than the angels? Because of, the death? V 9? What death? Remember; God, who can not lie, before times of of ages made a promise of hope.

Did the devil have the power of, the death, before Adam was created?

Now consider;
Romans 8:19 YLT for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God; --- When? Was it planned before Adam was created?
Luke 20:34-36 YLT And Jesus answering said to them, 'The sons of this age [What is man, Adam and the children of flesh and blood?] do marry and are given in marriage, but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; for neither are they able to die any more -- for they are like messengers [Angels] -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again. --- ? ages?

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:7


Interesting relative to the above.

Hebrews 1:2 YLT in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He [?Who?] appointed heir of all things, through whom also He [?] did make the ages;

And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14 YLT

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:7 Ye must be born again 9

Now this circumcision of the heart is imperative because circumcision as it was under the Old Covenant indicated that the one being circumcised had been born into the Covenant People, hence Abraham was told to circumcise the males. Now understand this, Abraham in this was a Type of Christ in that as Abraham's Seed was circumcised, so it is with Christ's Seed Isa 53:10

10 Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he[Christ] shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in his hand.

The difference is this, Abraham's Seed according to the flesh must receive a physical circumcision, whereas Christ Seed, which is Abraham's Spiritual Seed, must receive a Spiritual Circumcision of the Heart, indicating they were His Seed Isa 53:10.

Now Jesus coming into the world in the flesh was in line with God's Covenant Command to Abraham's Seed Lk 1:72-73

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73 The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

And Jesus as a babe was circumcised according to the Abrahamic Covenant Lk 2:21

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child,Gen 17:12 his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

Remember God's word to Abraham Gen 17:10-14

10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.
Click to expand...

Now its for certain that Christ is Abraham's Seed Gal 3:16

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

And so Christ's Seed is Abraham's Seed Isa 53:10, however Abraham's Seed through His Seed Christ is a Spiritual Seed, not a ethnic physical seed. So now understand, Abraham's Seed through His Seed Christ, to evidence that they are Abraham's Spiritual Seed, they must according to the Covenant Gen 17:9-13, they must receive Spiritual Circumcision, and that's why Abraham's Seed that belongs to Christ, must be born again Jn 3:7, their New Birth is their Spiritual Circumcision according to Covenant, manifesting them as Abraham's Seed and Heirs according to Promise through His Seed Christ Gal 3:29

29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

 

[Brightfame52]

? Is to have spiritual life, to have, eternal life? If you are created and or have been given, eternal life, would you be able to die any kind of death?

How was Adam created?

for to vanity was the creation (?Man?) made subject -- not of its will, but because of Him who did subject it -- in hope, Rom 8:20 ----- Hope of what? What, hope, did God promise before times of ages? Titus 1:2 NET in hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the ages began. ------ ? ages?

Consider:
Hebrews 2:14 YLT Seeing, then, the children [Children of whom? What is man who was made a little lower than the angels of verses 6,7?] have partaken of flesh and blood, he himself also in like manner did take part of the same, that through death he might destroy him having the power of death -- that is, the devil --

A little lower than the angels because of what? Why was, what is man, made a little lower than the angels? Because of, the death? V 9? What death? Remember; God, who can not lie, before times of of ages made a promise of hope.

Did the devil have the power of, the death, before Adam was created?

Now consider;
Romans 8:19 YLT for the earnest looking out of the creation doth expect the revelation of the sons of God; --- When? Was it planned before Adam was created?
Luke 20:34-36 YLT And Jesus answering said to them, 'The sons of this age [What is man, Adam and the children of flesh and blood?] do marry and are given in marriage, but those accounted worthy to obtain that age, and the rising again that is out of the dead, neither marry, nor are they given in marriage; for neither are they able to die any more -- for they are like messengers [Angels] -- and they are sons of God, being sons of the rising again. --- ? ages?

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. John 3:7


Interesting relative to the above.

Hebrews 1:2 YLT in these last days did speak to us in a Son, whom He [?Who?] appointed heir of all things, through whom also He [?] did make the ages;

And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us, and we beheld his glory, glory as of an only begotten of a father, full of grace and truth. John 1:14 YLT

Man because of sin, enters into the world dead in sin friend, and must be born again !

 

[percho]

IMHO

I say, before the foundation of the world man was going to be created with the need of being, born again, because Adam was going to bring the death the devil already had the power thereof to all men.

Before the foundation of the world how was God going to destroy the the devil and his works? Before the foundation of the world what would God have to be manifested as in order to accomplish that?

Heb 2:14 1 John 3:8 1 Tim 3:16 Gen 3:15 Col 1:18 Rom 8:29 Rom 16:20 1 Cor 15:52 John 3:7

 

[percho]

because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places;

 

[Brightfame52]

IMHO

I say, before the foundation of the world man was going to be created with the need of being, born again, because Adam was going to bring the death the devil already had the power thereof to all men.

Before the foundation of the world how was God going to destroy the the devil and his works? Before the foundation of the world what would God have to be manifested as in order to accomplish that?

Heb 2:14 1 John 3:8 1 Tim 3:16 Gen 3:15 Col 1:18 Rom 8:29 Rom 16:20 1 Cor 15:52 John 3:7

Do you believe that man is born into this world dead to God ? Dead in sin ?

 

[Brightfame52]

Jn 3:7 Ye must be born again 10

Now understand something, the Circumcision of the son in the covenant family was not the responsibility of the child, nor was it according the child's own will, as neither his birth, but it was the responsibility of the progenitor of the child, Lets read back in Gen 17:9-12

9 And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.
10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.

11 And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you.

12 And he that is eight days old shall be circumcised among you, every man child in your generations, he that is born in the house, or bought with money of any stranger, which is not of thy seed.

Who is responsible for the son's circumcision here ? Also when Christ was born as a babe, who was under responsibility to have him circumcised ? Lk 2:21-27

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called Jesus, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord )

24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.

25 And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him.

26 And it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost, that he should not see death, before he had seen the Lord's Christ.

27 And he came by the Spirit into the temple: and when the parents brought in the child Jesus, to do for him after the custom of the law,
Click to expand...
The progenitor or the Father is responsible for the seed that God gives him, and so it was with Christ, He is responsible to His Covenant God and Father to circumcise the seed, children given Him, for they are Christ's Seed Isa 53:10, Christ is their Everlasting Father Isa 9:6

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

So if He does not circumcise His Seed given Him, He does not fulfill the obligations of the Everlasting Covenant as it is stated in type Gen 17:13-14

13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

14 And the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken my covenant.

The Elect are children given to Christ Heb 2:13,16

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

Which by the way are the seed of Abraham :

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

Therefore Christ must see to it that they Love God, by the their circumcision Deut 30:6

6 And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

This is New Birth, and this is why also the Crowning achievement of Christ's Exaltation was the Father gave Him the Holy Spirit to pour out on His Seed, that the Spirit should circumcise their hearts. Acts 2:32-33

32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

All for whom Christ died, must receive the Circumcision of Christ Col 2:11

11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision made without hands, in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:

If we do not receive this circumcision by New Birth, we were none of His Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

 

[percho]

Do you believe that man is born into this world dead to God ? Dead in sin ?

I will go so far as to say, The moment one is conceived in the womb of it's mother the following applies; and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'
because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin;

Dying one dost die.

In order for him it have any hope of life following that, something must take place.

Adam was created of flesh and made a decision for all after himself and all followed in his steps except One and even he died, not for his own sins, yet for our sins.

for we have known that the law is spiritual, and I am fleshly, sold by the sin;


An interesting thought.
John 3:16 YLT for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

He gave? Is this primarily speaking of, gave ;to death? Now I ask, was this not foreordained before the foundation of the world?
Why?

Looks to me like before man was ever created he was going to need to be born again.

 

[Brightfame52]

I will go so far as to say, The moment one is conceived in the womb of it's mother the following applies; and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'
because of this, even as through one man the sin did enter into the world, and through the sin the death; and thus to all men the death did pass through, for that all did sin;

Dying one dost die.

In order for him it have any hope of life following that, something must take place.

Adam was created of flesh and made a decision for all after himself and all followed in his steps except One and even he died, not for his own sins, yet for our sins.

for we have known that the law is spiritual, and I am fleshly, sold by the sin;


An interesting thought.
John 3:16 YLT for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.

He gave? Is this primarily speaking of, gave ;to death? Now I ask, was this not foreordained before the foundation of the world?
Why?

Looks to me like before man was ever created he was going to need to be born again.

All that and you evaded my simple question.