Be honest, you refuse what scripture is saying and want your opinion in its place.
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1 Corinthians 6:16-17
- Thread starter Van
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37818
Well-Known Member
Huh. Romans 2:1, "Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things. . . ."
Do you always just pluck verses out of context?
Are you aware that Paul is making a long argument about Justification by faith alone from chapter 1 through chapter 11 of Romans? Do you have any idea what Paul is doing in chapter 2 as an argument that builds upon itself like an engineer building a house?
Honestly, please open your Bible and study it as a whole. This cherry picking a verse from any place with no context is just awful.
Tell me, why is the therefore there for?
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
What Paul is saying is that 1] you are now in Christ 2] why would you choose to sin 3] after you chose to trust in Him 4] so reject the sin. That is a middle voice understanding of the text.
Middle voice: The subject of the verb participates in the results of the action. Reread the post, I think you missed what I said.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Austin STOP with the philosophy. You have been shown numerous texts but you just refuse to accept them.
1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,
1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
Yes you should read the context of those verses and see that what is stated in those verses is true.
If your a sinner then Christ Jesus came to call you
Luk_5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."
Which fits with what God the Father desires:
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
You say God is sovereign and then deny that He is because you want to restrict what He can do. He has to fit into your view of how He should act. So you are trying to put yourself over God. If God wants to allow for true free will then who are you to say He can not? The bible says we have to choose and you say that is not how God saves. Really, who do you think you are to talk back to God and tell Him what He can or can not do?
No, I don't restrict what God can do.
I show that your "what if" comments have no biblical merit. I don't create exotic scenario's and say "what if." I look at God's Word and say, "God has said."
Your attempt to twist the reality of the matter is one of your common ploys. Your claim is illegitimate. You simply want humans to be the driving force in salvation and you cannot stand it that God is in control of all things.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
Austin you still do not respond to the the scripture. You just prattle on and restrict what God can do. God says He saves those that believe and you say He saves you then makes you believe. You have it backwards and as many times as your error has been shown to you you just deny scripture.
Actually deal with the scripture instead of just doing your usual denial speech. Read them in context and just trust what they say.
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1Co 1:22 For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom;
1Co 1:23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,
1Co 1:24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.
If your a sinner then Christ Jesus came to call you
Luk_5:32 "I have not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance."
Which fits with what God the Father desires:
1Ti 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
1Ti 2:4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
The truth of scripture has become a real stumbling block for you.
37818
Well-Known Member
Huh. You do not know the difference between from a context or out of context.
37818
Well-Known Member
Huh. You do not know the difference between from a context or out of context.
37818
Well-Known Member
That is your problem.
The word of God only teaches one must believe what is required prior to eternal life and salvation.
Not from the passages you are looking at.
37818
Well-Known Member
You are being irrational.
Romans 10:13-15, ". . .
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? . . ."
Here salvation is after asking. And asking after believing. And believing after hearing.
The bottom line the believing precede the salvation. The calling is a work do to believing. The believing is the requirement. The work in that promise is not a requirement.
Let's do it.
Great verse. A wonderful introduction to Paul's oratory on justification by faith alone.
The good news of Jesus justification of our sins is for all who believe. (Ephesians 2:1-9 tells us how dead persons come to believe.)
Yep, God saves those who believe.
Dead men don't believe, Silverhair. They consider the gospel to be foolishness.
But, those whom God calls ("Lazarus, come forth") certainly do believe.
Once again, I point out that you ignore verses 3-12, and 15-23.
However, sticking with your narrow look, these dead men had to hear the Word (God spoke "Austin, come forth.") and then they believe.
We are all sinners. Does Jesus call out each person's name that was ever born? No. God, who is Sovereign, has mercy on whom he has mercy and hardens whom he hardens. (Romans 9)
You interpret 1 Timothy 2:3-4 as a universalist. Then you deny it by proclaiming that God is too weak to save all men because human will is more powerful than God and nullifies God's desire. This is a major stumbling block to you and you refuse to see it or acknowledge it.
As usual, you ignore Paul's comments in front of a pet verse, which explains what Paul is saying.
1 Timothy 2:1-7
First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a peaceful and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. This is good, and it is pleasing in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all people to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all, which is the testimony given at the proper time. For this I was appointed a preacher and an apostle (I am telling the truth, I am not lying), a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and truth.
If you actually grasp what Paul is telling his readers, you will see that Paul is telling them that God is not prejudiced. God saves people from all walks of life and every status group. Therefore pray for all people because God is going to save people from all groups.
Now, I have pointed this out to you on multiple occasions, but you are simply bull-headed and refuse to discern the Word of God. I have no doubt you will ignore everything I write and you will, someday soon, make the same foolish claims you have been making.
Your humanistic love of self is ever present in your argument.
You are ignoring all the text around this, which I have already quoted to you twice and highlighted why your view is wrong.
37818
Well-Known Member
You are supposing.
For not any text in the written word of God teaches belief is the result of God saving one in order to believe.
I have no idea what you are twisting here.
Here's the simple process.
From before the foundation of the world God chose whom He would adopt and write an inheritance into the Will (New Covenant). All whom God has adopted, He will call and He will redeem. Those He has chosen are from all areas of life, Kings and Paupers, slave and free, male and female, etc. God takes them out of the darkness of their sins and brings them into the light of His righteousness. All scripture teaches this truth.
Yet, here you and Silverhair ignore what God has done and you insist on placing man as the cause of his own salvation. You have consistently plucked verses you imagine to be making an argument for you when the context always proves you are wrong. Yet, you refuse to study the whole of scripture to see what God has done. It would be a great thing for you to read through the entire Bible and see what God is doing. In doing so, you may see God's Supremacy in salvation.
37818
Well-Known Member
You resort to false accusations. Stop. Nothing in the word of God is being denied by me.
Silverhair
Well-Known Member
I will say one thing for you Austin, you have the strangest way of reading scripture that I have come across. You will twist any clear verse in the effort to have it support your errant view. Sad part is you do not even make the attempt to believe what the bible actually says.
God saves those that believe, your words there Austin so you have just contradicted your own theology. You have God save you so that you will believe. It is not even your faith so how do you know that it is real?
God gives the gift of faith so that we will believe.
God's gift of faith is the justification that our sins are substituted for Christ Jesus righteousness.
God justifies you by the faith God gave you. # 45
You believed precisely because God saved you and gave you the capacity to have faith # 48
God chose to give me the gift of faith # 51
The bible, the word of God, does not agree with your errant view and yet you claim to be right.
And you deny clear scripture:
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
1Co 1:21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Rom 10:14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?
The message has to be presented before they can believe the message. How do you miss the obvious?
Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith... Notice it is through or because of faith not unto faith as you keep positing.
You refuse to see what is right in front of you.
1 Corinthians 6:17 (interpretive translation)
Yet the one being joined to the Lord is united in spirit.. We are in His Spirit and His Spirit is in us.[/QUOTE]
This spiritual union also includes our siblings in Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:8 - Now the one who plants and the one who waters are one G1520; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
Thus while spiritually united with our fellow workers in Christ's ministry, we will receive our own reward according to our labor.
Yet the one being joined to the Lord is united in spirit.. We are in His Spirit and His Spirit is in us.[/QUOTE]
This spiritual union also includes our siblings in Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:8 - Now the one who plants and the one who waters are one G1520; but each will receive his own reward according to his own labor.
Thus while spiritually united with our fellow workers in Christ's ministry, we will receive our own reward according to our labor.