Dispensational help with with Acts 2:38

[JD731]

Continued

Logic and reason. If Samaria was not part of the lost sheep of the house of Israel then Jesus would not have ministered there. He stayed there two days. (remember the formula for types he gave us)

But more important is what he said to the Samaritan woman.
10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.
14 But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life.

25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Jesus is claiming to be their Messiah whom they are looking for.

So, tracking the apostles and prophets after the ascension of Jesus.

1) The gospel was first preached in Jerusalem where the men of Israel often trod.
2) then in Judaea for a lengthy while.
3) Then in Samaria in Acts 8
4) then the the gentiles beginning in Acts 10, who have been receiving the gospel by varying degrees ever since until now when not many are being saved.


So, let's review how the gift of the Holy Ghost was dispersed in the world.
1) To the apostles - Jesus Christ, on the day of the resurrection, breathed the Spirit into their bodies, and to whom he gave his own authority of binding and loosing over their kinsmen. (There will be examples in the next post)

John 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them his hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.

2) To men of Israel - They would receive the Spirit upon the condition of repentance and water baptism in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 2:22 Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.
44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

3) To Gentiles -
Acts 10:
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

Van, a spiritual baptism in Acts 2 would not have made any sense to the men of Israel. They were expecting a physical kingdom, not a spiritual one.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

The church was a mystery that would be revealed through the apostle Paul, who would not be saved for another 7 years and would not begin his ministry for three years after that. Peter had to be given "signs" by God to make him understand that he must open the door of faith to the gentiles. He had been baptizing Israelites for a long time before the events of Acts 10.

This post has been preparation for my next post that will prove baptism in water as a pre-condition to receive the Spirit for Israel. I have some things from other chapters that are very instructive. Do you think you can agree with what I have given you here? I hope so.

My prayer is that our Lord Jesus Christ be exalted and glorified in this conversation.

 

[Van]

Two posts (#40 and 41) of incredible length and therefore a waste to effort have been posted.

The idea is that somehow Acts 2:38 does not refer to our spiritual baptism into Christ's spiritual body! And of course Acts 2:38 does indeed refer to our spiritual baptism. You cannot be sealed in Christ unless somehow who were put into Christ first. This truth is inescapable, to be sealed in Christ is to be in Christ when sealed. And God is the entity that puts someone in Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:30.

Let us address just some of the fallacies put forth in the overly wordy posts.

1) The gift of the Holy Spirit was given to the Apostles on the day of Christ's resurrection rather than on the day of Pentecost. Jesus said He had to leave in order to send the Spirit, thus the Holy Spirit was not given while the resurrected Jesus still walked the earth.

.
John 16:7 (NaSB)
“But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.​

2) Yes, the gospel of Christ was a mystery and would not initially have made sense to those inculcated with the traditions of men.

3) The church existed from the Day of Pentecost. See Acts 2:41

 

[JD731]

Two posts (#40 and 41) of incredible length and therefore a waste to effort have been posted.

The idea is that somehow Acts 2:38 does not refer to our spiritual baptism into Christ's spiritual body! And of course Acts 2:38 does indeed refer to our spiritual baptism. You cannot be sealed in Christ unless somehow who were put into Christ first. This truth is inescapable, to be sealed in Christ is to be in Christ when sealed. And God is the entity that puts someone in Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:30.

Van, I went back and looked in Acts 2 and I could not find you there. Please point yourself out so I can see you.

Let us address just some of the fallacies put forth in the overly wordy posts.

1) The gift of the Holy Spirit was given to the Apostles on the day of Christ's resurrection rather than on the day of Pentecost. Jesus said He had to leave in order to send the Spirit, thus the Holy Spirit was not given while the resurrected Jesus still walked the earth.

.
John 16:7 (NaSB)
“But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you.​

Ah, Van. Remember what I said to you earlier. The words of God are precise and believable. Jesus breathed on these men said to these apostles, "receive ye the Holy Ghost." Then he gave them his own authority to remit and to retain sins. That is what he said. If you choose not to believe it then that is on you, not me. He spoke the verse you quoted from John 16;7 before he died and rose again and at that time none of the disciples would believe the resurrection. I would say death for three days was a departure, wouldn't you?

2) Yes, the gospel of Christ was a mystery and would not initially have made sense to those inculcated with the traditions of men.

The gospel of Christ is not a mystery. It is so simple a child can understand it.

3) The church existed from the Day of Pentecost. See Acts 2:41

Yes, you got that one right.

Let me say something to you about the coming of the Holy Ghost for his ministry of fashioning the church of Jesus Christ and indwelling those who believe the gospel of Christ. We are not told that the disciples who had been instructed by Jesus Christ to wait in Jerusalem until you have been endued with power from on high, that they would receive the Holy Ghost at that time. He said they were "filled" with the Holy Ghost. There is a difference of being indwelt and being filled. One can be filled with the Holy Ghost in addition to being indwelt by him, but one who is not indwelt by him cannot be filled by him. We are commanded as Christians to be filled with the Holy Ghost and that simply means that ones who have the Holy Ghost are to yield their bodies to the control of the Spirit who lives in them to accomplish the special work of God.

8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Come upon you and to be in you are two different things. The words of God are precise.

Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;

One is analogous to the other because both controls the body and excess of wine is something one chooses and being filled with the Spirit is a command of God. This means it is not automatic.

Read the chapter again Van, and believe the words. There is safety in believing the words.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

 

[Van]

Van SNIP

I did not bother to even read this post as it started by addressing me as if I was the subject.
Any brain dead jerk can claim I do not believe God's words. What can I say. Such vicious posts should be deleted.

 

[JD731]

I did not bother to even read this post as it started by addressing me as if I was the subject.
Any brain dead jerk can claim I do not believe God's words. What can I say. Such vicious posts should be deleted.

Van, I promised you I would prove the baptism of the apostles in Acts 2:38 was water baptism and I will do that now. After sowing seed in the field, first in the portion that Jesus referred to in Matt 13 as the "wayside," Jerusalem, and then in the stony places, Judaea, he began to sow in the thorny place of the field, Samaria.

We need to look at the players in this part of the field.
1) We have of course, the Samaritans
2) We have Phillip, the evangelist, who was a prophet and a member of the Seventy of Luke 10, who were given sign gifts in order to minister to Israel.
3) Next, we have a Samaritan man called Simon, a sorcerer, a demonic deceiver
4) We have unclean spirits possessing some Samaritans.
5) We have Peter & John enter the picture, coming from Jerusalem, the sending church.
6) The Holy Ghost is here

Lets look at what some of these above did in Samaria.

Phillip
Phillip came to Samaria from Jerusalem and preached Christ to them. Verse 5
He preached and worked miracles among them. (remember, the Jews require a sign) Verse 6
He cast out the devils that were in them and healed some serious physical problems for them verse 7.
He baptized them in water in the name of Jesus Christ when they believed. Verse 12

Acts 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.

The Samaritans
They all gave serious attention to what Phillip had to say because of his miracles. verse 6
They were joyful. - Verse 8
Upon believing the gospel that Phillip preached, they were baptized in water, both men and women Verse 12
They met the preconditions, repentance, baptism in water in the name of Jesus Christ Verse 16

The unclean spirits
They were all cast out and left town.

Simon the sorcerer
Simon, who had for a long time bewitched the Samaritans, claiming he was some great power of God, believed Phillip, with the head, not the heart Verses 13, 21
He was baptized by Phillip in water Verse 13
He later observed the apostles, Peter & John, laying hands on the believers who had been baptized already, and they received the Holy Ghost Verse 18
He desired this power and offered the apostles money for the power Verse 19
He seemed to have repented of his wickedness Verse 24.

Peter & John
Sometime later the Jews in Jerusalem, the sending church, had heard the gospel had gone to this part of the field and they sent Peter & John to confirm Verse 14
The apostles recognizing they had met the preconditions for Israel already, prayed they might receive the Holy Ghost. Verse 15
The apostles laid hands on them and they received the Holy Ghost. Verse 17

Peter
Peter rebuked Simon for his desire for power for self aggrandizement Verse 20.
Peter retained his sins according to his apostolic appointment in Jn 20, and did not lay hands on him to receive the Holy Ghost Verses 20-23

The Holy Ghost
The Holy Ghost led Phillip to Samaria Verse 5
He filled Phillip and spoke through him and worked miracles through him Verse 6
He indwelt those repentant and baptized in Jesus name believers of Samaria on whom, and when the apostles laid hands on them Verses 16-17
He gave Perter discernment concerning Simon the sorcerer, who had believed and had been baptized but whose heart was wrong (no repentance) Verse 23
He led the apostles to preach the word of the Lord to the now saved Samaritans before going back to Jerusalem. Verse 25.

Van, this testimony from the scriptures of truth gives us great insight into how the Holy Spirit worked through the apostles to keep the church pure at the beginning. After reading this we can be sure that baptism in water was indeed a precondition for those of Israel to receive the Holy Ghost but from the fact we see that Phillip did not have the authority to lay hands on the Samaritans to receive the Holy Ghost, being a prophet of God and not an apostle, we now understand why Jesus said to them in Jn 20, whosoever sins you remit they are remitted and whosoever sins you retain they are retained.

This also gives us to understand that following a formula without heart felt faith, as Simon tried to do in this narrative, is not how to be saved. He claimed to believe and Phillip baptized him, and he no doubt called on the name of the Lord, but Peter did not lay hands on him so he would receive the Holy Ghost, whose presence in our bodies is salvation because he is the life of God.

These are wonderful truths, Van. I have one more post to show you what God is doing in this age and how he is building his church. It is magnificent truth.

 

[JD731]

I did not bother to even read this post as it started by addressing me as if I was the subject.
Any brain dead jerk can claim I do not believe God's words. What can I say. Such vicious posts should be deleted.

Please do not get too self righteous. You accuse the Calvinists of not believing. What is the difference in you and me. Though I am not accusing you of not believing but just being in error. There is a difference.

 

[Van]

Please do not get too self righteous. You accuse the Calvinists of not believing. What is the difference in you and me. Though I am not accusing you of not believing but just being in error. There is a difference.

I never accursed the Calvinists of not believing in Jesus!!!!!!!!! Stop posting your falsehoods non-stop.

I am so sick and tired that troll like posts are not flagged.

And to return to topic, Acts 2:38 refers to our spiritual baptism into Christ's spiritual body, because a person must be within Christ to be sealed in Christ with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This is simply a lock and whale sized posts will not alter that fact.

 

[JD731]

I never accursed the Calvinists of not believing in Jesus!!!!!!!!! Stop posting your falsehoods non-stop.

I am so sick and tired that troll like posts are not flagged.

And to return to topic, Acts 2:38 refers to our spiritual baptism into Christ's spiritual body, because a person must be within Christ to be sealed in Christ with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. This is simply a lock and whale sized posts will not alter that fact.

Calvinists believe the T.U.L.I.P. Van. Now do not tell me you are on this board agreeing with the TULIP, please.You need to consider anger management. I have been disagreeing with your doctrine of baptism in Acts 2:38, or rather, it is my op, so you have been disagreeing with my view. I have proven my view is the correct view by comparing scripture with scripture and your view is supported by short rim shots that I would call human reasoning.

My view of Acts 2:38 is a dispensational view point and I have laid it out. I have one more post for the whole picture.

 

[Van]

Calvinists believe the T.U.L.I.P. Van. Now do not tell me you are on this board agreeing with the TULIP, please.You need to consider anger management. I have been disagreeing with your doctrine of baptism in Acts 2:38, or rather, it is my op, so you have been disagreeing with my view. I have proven my view is the correct view by comparing scripture with scripture and your view is supported by short rim shots that I would call human reasoning.

My view of Acts 2:38 is a dispensational view point and I have laid it out. I have one more post for the whole picture.

Still no explanation as to how a person is sealed in Christ with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before being placed within Christ's spiritual body!!!

To call logical necessity required by scripture to be "human reasoning" as if it is "human invention" is absurd.

Acts 2:38 says be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit. Scripture says we are sealed within Christ's spiritual body with the Holy Spirit. JD731 does not address this truth, but posts loads of verbiage sidestepping it.

 

[JD731]

Still no explanation as to how a person is sealed in Christ with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit before being placed within Christ's spiritual body!!!

To call logical necessity required by scripture to be "human reasoning" as if it is "human invention" is absurd.

Acts 2:38 says be baptized to receive the Holy Spirit. Scripture says we are sealed within Christ's spiritual body with the Holy Spirit. JD731 does not address this truth, but posts loads of verbiage sidestepping it.

Sealing is not my topic. Baptism in the context of Acts 2:38 is. Sealing of the Spirit is taken up by the apostle Paul, and according to him, it happens when we believe the gospel, not when we are placed into the body of Christ. The context in Ephesians 1 is that we are sealed by the Spirit in our hearts by faith. Nothing is said we are sealed by being in the Spirit. But that may not even be your point. Who knows? You are certainly not clear.

Do you understand that you are disagreeing with every point I have made so far because my points disagrees with this one thing you seem to hold dear to yourself and you have not even tried to explain it from the scriptures. Why not start a thread to discuss and prove you doctrine from the scriptures?

 

[Van]

Sealing is not my topic. Baptism in the context of Acts 2:38 is. Sealing of the Spirit is taken up by the apostle Paul, and according to him, it happens when we believe the gospel, not when we are placed into the body of Christ. The context in Ephesians 1 is that we are sealed by the Spirit in our hearts by faith. Nothing is said we are sealed by being in the Spirit. But that may not even be your point. Who knows? You are certainly not clear.

Do you understand that you are disagreeing with every point I have made so far because my points disagrees with this one thing you seem to hold dear to yourself and you have not even tried to explain it from the scriptures. Why not start a thread to discuss and prove you doctrine from the scriptures?

More absurdity, we are sealed in Christ, thus we are first within Christ, then indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
Did anyone say "we are sealed by being in the Spirit?" Nope, on and on folks, one misdirection after another. Acts 2:38 refers to our spiritual baptism into Christ's spiritual body, after which we are sealed within Him with the Holy Spirit. It is a lock.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

​

 

[Van]

Am I disagreeing with every point made by other posters? Nope, I am not addressing non-germane points in an effort to keep the discussion focused on Acts 2:38 and whether the baptism in view is a water baptism done with human hands or a spiritual baptism done by God.

While I have been charged with not being clear, I have been crystal, the baptism of Acts 2:38 is our spiritual baptism into Christ's spiritual body done by God. The basis is that it is an action required in order to enter Christ's spiritual body, God puts us into Christ, (1 Corinthians 1:30) and only after being put into Christ are we sealed within Christ's spiritual body with the Holy Spirit.

 

[JD731]

More absurdity, we are sealed in Christ, thus we are first within Christ, then indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
Did anyone say "we are sealed by being in the Spirit?" Nope, on and on folks, one misdirection after another. Acts 2:38 refers to our spiritual baptism into Christ's spiritual body, after which we are sealed within Him with the Holy Spirit. It is a lock.

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

​

You should examine the verbs in this sentence and take into account the conjunctions. The first is a present tense verb. The verb after the conjunction "also" is in the past tense. You should also try to identify the pronouns, us and you, within the context of the Christian faith as it is revealed in the holy scriptures.The scriptures are purposely written in a way that the careless reader will not grasp the great truths revealed therein. The command is to "study."

I might have one more post in this thread concerning the church and the context with the baptism in Acts 2:38.

 

[JD731]

Van
The purpose of God in this age is to build his church. It has more than one metaphorical designations. It is the body of Christ. It is the church of Christ. It is the bride of Christ. It is a house. It is a temple for the Holy Ghost. It is one with Jesus Christ in the same way that a husband is one with his wife, though he is the head of the wife and they are actually two people. Read Ephesians 5 now to see this in real time.

But, I am looking at this in a dispensational frame work and one must see how it is built.

It has a Jewish foundation and the building has four main parts and was first introduced by Jesus Christ when he spoke to Peter about it in Matt 16. He had said this about Peter much earlier.

John 1:41 He first findeth his own brother Simon, and saith unto him, We have found the Messias, which is, being interpreted, the Christ.
42 And he brought him to Jesus. And when Jesus beheld him, he said, Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas, which is by interpretation, A stone.

Matt 16 is not about Peter although Jesus has designated him as a stone. This is about himself as the stone on which he will build his church.

1) The corner stone
2) the foundation
3) the frame work
4) The capstone

Knowing this brings new meaning to Revelation 1:8 where Jesus says in the context of the seven churches of Asia,

Re 1:8 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.

He is the beginning and ending of the church. Our NT epistles says the church has both. The first mention of the church was not in the OT law or prophets. It was in Matthew 16 and it was after the Jews plotted to put Jesus to death because of political expedience.

Matt 12:14 Then the Pharisees went out, and held a council against him, how they might destroy him.
15 But when Jesus knew it, he withdrew himself from thence:

From that point on Jesus did not walk openly among the Jews.

It is of tremendous importance to understand that the church of Jesus Christ has been under Satanic attack from it's first mention in history until this very day. Satan is a spirit and cannot be seen with the human eye but he was there that day and he used one of our Lord's best men to withstand the will of God. The attack came through Peter because Peter did not understand the words that Jesus said and acted upon his own desires. This teaches us a great lesson as well as provides a great illustration; believe the word of God in it's context whether you understand it at the time or whether you don't. One must remember that Jesus Christ was looking at Peter and addressing Satan in Matt 16.

So, the Cornerstone. Jesus asked his disciples, " When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

He called himself the son of man, speaking of his humanity.

Then he asked this question of his disciples.

" But whom say ye that I am?"

Here is the answer. 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

If a person reading this does not believe this is the most important confession one can make in the context of the church he has not considered that God had a whole gospel written for the express purpose that men would believe what Peter just uttered. Consider this;



John 20:30 And many other signs truly did Jesus in the presence of his disciples, which are not written in this book:
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Things one must consider now.
1) If Jesus Christ were not the Son of God, he could not be our savior.
2) If he were not the son of man he could not be our savior
3) If Jesus Christ were only the son of man he would be like us and could not die for our sins
4) If Jesus Christ were only the Son of God, and were not the son of man, he could not be our savior
5) If Jesus Christ were both the Son of God and the son of man at the same time and did not die for us, he would not be our savior.

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

This brings me to the structure of the church and the beginning in Jesus Christ. Anyone then or now could mouth the confession of Peter but Peter's confession was from the heart and the words and work of Jesus Christ through his experience had taught Peter who Jesus is.Therefore, the confession of the person of Jesus Christ must be from the heart and he is revealed by the Spirit.



Here is a quote from Peter later as he quotes the OT.

1 Peter 2:6
Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

The Jews had one of two responses to this.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

Luke 20:17
And he beheld them, and said, What is this then that is written, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner?

These are references to the crucifixion and burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ in Jerusalem.

I am still in the context of the baptism in water in the early chapters of Acts, which is when this Cornerstone is laid and on which the church is built. Notice what Jesus says the very next thing to Peter;

17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

Rocks, stones, foundations, these are what Jesus is discussing now that the Jews have rejected him and plotted to destroy him, which they think they do when they get the Romans to crucify him. But it is the beginning of the kingdom of heaven that is built on him, the chief cornerstone, and God raises him from the dead.



The key to get through the door is given to Peter and the apostles and they are in charge of the door. Those of Israel who go through the door will be baptized in water by these apostles and prophets and the apostles will have the authority of Jesus in the matter of who gets in, as I have clearly demonstrated by the events of Acts 8 and the Samaritans. Peter would later open the door of faith to gentiles, but not through water baptism. Acts 10 and the invitation to the gentiles to come in and be saved is a clear pivot point in God's unfolding drama of redemption to the world.



Much more could be said about our Lord Jesus Christ in this context but this carries a WOW factor of innumerable proportions already as one ponders what he has done for us. I will make another post and discuss the other parts of the building.



"Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste." Isa 28:16

 

[Van]

You should examine the verbs in this sentence and take into account the conjunctions. The first is a present tense verb. The verb after the conjunction "also" is in the past tense. You should also try to identify the pronouns, us and you, within the context of the Christian faith as it is revealed in the holy scriptures.The scriptures are purposely written in a way that the careless reader will not grasp the great truths revealed therein. The command is to "study."

I might have one more post in this thread concerning the church and the context with the baptism in Acts 2:38.

No amount of generalized comments will alter the fact we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit when we are sealed within the Spirit of Christ. All this about Greek grammar is a dodge, a deflection, an obfuscation. And to claim scripture was written so the "careless reader will not grasp the great truths" is obvious heresy. Scripture was written so that we would believe, and believing we would be saved.

 

[JD731]

No amount of generalized comments will alter the fact we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit when we are sealed within the Spirit of Christ. All this about Greek grammar is a dodge, a deflection, an obfuscation. And to claim scripture was written so the "careless reader will not grasp the great truths" is obvious heresy. Scripture was written so that we would believe, and believing we would be saved.

Thank you, Van, for that. I mentioned nothing about Greek Grammar (what would I know about that). You posted something in English, and I do know something about that. I know what an action verb is, a pronoun, a conjunction. I know what is past tense, present tense and I read your post and it does not say what you are purporting it to say.

I am not even sure about your point. You say they could not be baptized in water because they have the Spirit in them to seal them and this is the command of the apostle Peter?

What about the Samaritans in Acts 8, who believed the "things concerning the kingdom" and were baptized in water but did not receive the Spirit until Peter and John, both apostles, laid hands on them? Did these apostles have the God given authority of remitting and retaining, or not?

I am not at all sure how you are getting to where you are wanting to go.

 

[Van]

Thank you, Van, for that. I mentioned nothing about Greek Grammar (what would I know about that). You posted something in English, and I do know something about that. I know what an action verb is, a pronoun, a conjunction. I know what is past tense, present tense and I read your post and it does not say what you are purporting it to say.

I am not even sure about your point. You say they could not be baptized in water because they have the Spirit in them to seal them and this is the command of the apostle Peter?

What about the Samaritans in Acts 8, who believed the "things concerning the kingdom" and were baptized in water but did not receive the Spirit until Peter and John, both apostles, laid hands on them? Did these apostles have the God given authority of remitting and retaining, or not?

I am not at all sure how you are getting to where you are wanting to go.

Feigning such obtuseness is beneath contempt. Did I say believers indwelt with the Holy Spirit could not be water baptized? Of course not. Why not address what I did say?

I said Acts 2:38 refers to spiritual baptism into Christ, which precedes being indwelt with the Holy Spirit because we are sealed within Christ with the Holy Spirit. I provided the specific biblical references. Now you go on and on about other issues of your invention.

 

[37818]

I said Acts 2:38 refers to spiritual baptism into Christ, . . .

Most Christian interpeters, I think, of Acts 2:38 understand the text to refer to water baptism. And do not interpet any kind of baptismal regeneration from the text.

 

[JD731]

Feigning such obtuseness is beneath contempt. Did I say believers indwelt with the Holy Spirit could not be water baptized? Of course not. Why not address what I did say?

I said Acts 2:38 refers to spiritual baptism into Christ, which precedes being indwelt with the Holy Spirit because we are sealed within Christ with the Holy Spirit. I provided the specific biblical references. Now you go on and on about other issues of your invention.

Well, this makes John 20 very difficult to understand when Jesus breathed on the apostles and prophets on the day of his resurrection and told them to receive the Holy Ghost. Yet Jesus did not perform his baptism of the Holy Ghost until the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 when he was poured out from heaven. We are not told in Acts 2 that these apostles and prophets were indwelt with the Holy Ghost, but that they were "filled" with the Holy Ghost and his agrees with what Jesus had told them at his ascension 10 days earlier as he ascended to heaven,. I will quote it for you. Later, those of us who have received the Holy Ghost are commanded to be filled with the Holy Ghost, which means to allow ourselves to be controlled by him to the same extent that excess of wine controls the drunk.
8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Look at the words. He did not say the Holy Ghost will come in you, but upon you. He will be your power. Power for what? To be witnesses unto him in the four areas of the field I have already pointed out. He says nothing about them being baptized in water or anything else. They already had the Spirit dwelling in them, if words mean what they say.

BTW Van, I believe that a saved man is sealed by the Holy Ghost, but it is understood by me that the Holy Ghost is himself the seal. This just means that a man, un-glorified and subject to sin, will not be charged with the sin since the Spirit of Christ is also the righteousness of Christ and the righteousness of Christ is imputed to the individual believer in this manner. This imputation takes place at the moment of salvation and the believer is then baptized, or immersed ,in the body where he becomes a functioning member of that body as he is placed in it at the discretion of the Spirit who put him there. All the members of that body are equal in the body though they have different functions and it is one body with many members.

I think your view, if I am understanding you correctly is in error.

 

[Van]

Most Christian interpeters, I think, of Acts 2:38 understand the text to refer to water baptism. And do not interpet any kind of baptismal regeneration from the text.

You may be correct as to the majority view, but if true, the majority has not studied the verse. Where are our sins removed? In Christ. Where do we undergo the washing of regeneration? In Christ. Where do we undergo the circumcision of Christ? In Christ. So where do we obtain the remission of sins? In water or in Christ's Spiritual body? And where are we when we are sealed within Christ? In water or in Christ's spiritual body?

The concept a person will receive the Holy Spirit as a result of water baptism is totally rejected by every Baptist church I know of.