Were the reformers right?

[canadyjd]

then explain what Jesus says in Matthew 4:17; 11:20; Mark 1:15; 6:12; Luke 13:1-5; 16:30; 24:47 (NASB, ESV), etc if this does not mean sorry for and turning from sins before a sinner is saved? Both Peter and Paul understood this is what Jesus meant

Jesus continued what John the Baptist preached, " John came baptizing in the wilderness and preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins" (Mark 1:4). Verse 15 is exactly this, "repentance for the forgiveness of sins", BEFORE salvation.

Christian baptism is not the same as John’s baptism.

John, as the forerunner, was teaching people they no longer needed to go to the Temple to sacrifice animals show repentance and/or receive forgiveness. Their forgiveness would be found through faith in the Messiah, who is the once for all sacrifice.

John’s baptism foreshadowed baptism by God Holy Spirit of His chosen people, first in drawing them into that relationship and then indwelling afterward.

peace to you

 

[SavedByGrace]

Christian baptism is not the same as John’s baptism.

John, as the forerunner, was teaching people they no longer needed to go to the Temple to sacrifice animals show repentance and/or receive forgiveness. Their forgiveness would be found through faith in the Messiah, who is the once for all sacrifice.

John’s baptism foreshadowed baptism by God Holy Spirit of His chosen people, first in drawing them into that relationship and then indwelling afterward.

peace to you

I am not talking about water baptism, but the fact that John and Jesus and the Apostles, all spoke of the need of REPENTING from sins, and FAITH, as requirements to getting saved

 

[atpollard]

then explain what Jesus says in Matthew 4:17; 11:20; Mark 1:15; 6:12; Luke 13:1-5; 16:30; 24:47 (NASB, ESV), etc if this does not mean sorry for and turning from sins before a sinner is saved? Both Peter and Paul understood this is what Jesus meant

That is not how things work. You do not state a premise and then challenge the world to prove you wrong. The burden to prove your claims falls on you, not me.

Here is my claim:

We are saved through faith and not as a result of works.​

Here is my proof of my claim:

[Ephesians 2:1-10 NASB95]
1 And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2 in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3 Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

[Luke 7:50 NASB95] 50 And He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; goin peace.”​

 

[Guido]

Titus 3:5-7
Romans 11:29

If a person is saved already, if salvation is not by works, if salvation is irrevocable, how can they be lost by their lack of good works?

Notice the usage of the word "repentance" in the second verse. Does God sin?

 

[timf]

Were the reformers right?

Not completely. It would be unlikely that one would move from error to complete truth in one step.

As we learn and mature, one should expect that we will get things wrong and even take wrong turns. Thinking we have a achieved perfect and complete understanding often kills the humility we need to keep learning.

The dilemma posed by Acts 2:38 might be resolved by considering that Peter was talking to Israel about the gospel of the kingdom rather than the gospel to the uncircumcision (Gal 2:7).

The difference would be an offer of a national gospel for Israel as opposed to an offer of individual salvation. It seems that both believing Jews and gentiles were afforded the opportunity for individual salvation (Acts 15:11). However, the offer of the kingdom was only for the nation of Israel.

"I am embarrassed by what I thought five years ago. I hope to be embarrassed five years from now by what I think today."

 

[Van]

How many times are we to kick around the fact that faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin!!!
James taught of dead faith, i.e. faith without adherence to the beliefs. If we commit to follow Christ, then do not follow Christ, is that live faith or dead faith? If I commit to follow Christ, then I also commit not to go some other way, thus repenting from any other way? So simple a child could understand...

 

[AustinC]

How many times are we to kick around the fact that faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin!!!
James taught of dead faith, i.e. faith without adherence to the beliefs. If we commit to follow Christ, then do not follow Christ, is that live faith or dead faith? If I commit to follow Christ, then I also commit not to go some other way, thus repenting from any other way? So simple a child could understand...

It's actually the same side of the same coin. God gives you faith and he gives you the capacity to repent.
No evidence of the supplements of faith (Read 2 Peter 1) is a sure sign of no faith.
If God commits to save you, you will repent. So simple a Van should understand it.

 

[Van]

It's actually the same side of the same coin. God gives you faith and he gives you the capacity to repent.
No evidence of the supplements of faith (Read 2 Peter 1) is a sure sign of no faith.
If God commits to save you, you will repent. So simple a Van should understand it.

Every biblical truth is denied by Calvinism.
How many times are we to kick around the fact that faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin!!!
James taught of dead faith, i.e. faith without adherence to the beliefs. If we commit to follow Christ, then do not follow Christ, is that live faith or dead faith? If I commit to follow Christ, then I also commit not to go some other way, thus repenting from any other way? So simple a child could understand...

 

[atpollard]

Every biblical truth is denied by Calvinism.

EVERY TRUTH?
Really?

So Calvinists all deny the Virgin birth?
(or is that not a Biblical truth?)

Calvinists deny that people have the power to choose God unless God has first chosen to give them that gift. That is what Calvinists deny … synergism.

 

[Van]

EVERY TRUTH?
Really?

So Calvinists all deny the Virgin birth?
(or is that not a Biblical truth?)

Calvinists deny that people have the power to choose God unless God has first chosen to give them that gift. That is what Calvinists deny … synergism.

Yes, I blundered. But rather than address what was correct in my post, you only addressed my blunder. Go figure.

How many times are we to kick around the fact that faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin!!!
James taught of dead faith, i.e. faith without adherence to the beliefs. If we commit to follow Christ, then do not follow Christ, is that live faith or dead faith? If I commit to follow Christ, then I also commit not to go some other way, thus repenting from any other way? So simple a child could understand...

Did Atpollard address these points? Nope.

Does God give "dead faith?" Nope. Thus individuals commit to follow Christ to varying degrees. Does not sound like the one size fits all nonsense of Calvinism.

Calvinists deny Christ when He says "Your faith" has saved you, or healed you. They rewrite "Your faith" to mean "your God instilled by irresistible grace faith!" Not how it reads. Calvinists are as bad as liberal supreme court judges. They find their ideas in what is not said.

 

[AustinC]

Every biblical truth is denied by Calvinism.
How many times are we to kick around the fact that faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin!!!
James taught of dead faith, i.e. faith without adherence to the beliefs. If we commit to follow Christ, then do not follow Christ, is that live faith or dead faith? If I commit to follow Christ, then I also commit not to go some other way, thus repenting from any other way? So simple a child could understand...

Your first sentence is pure hyperbole with no merit.
The rest of your comment is man-centered.
You have a view about faith and repentance that lifts up your self. The Bible is about God.

 

[Van]

Your first sentence is pure hyperbole with no merit.
The rest of your comment is man-centered.
You have a view about faith and repentance that lifts up your self. The Bible is about God.

Note the subject change, and the disregard for post #50!!
Calvinism is man-centered false doctrine, that is why they charge others with their malfeasance
And then the endless false claim salvation depends on people rather than God. Why these obvious total falsehoods are allowed to be posted endlessly is beyond me. Scripture says our faith provides our access to God's grace, not to our obtaining that grace. God and God alone is the one who chooses to credit our faith or not. Romans 4.

 

[AustinC]

Note the subject change, and the disregard for post #50!!
Calvinism is man-centered false doctrine, that is why they charge others with their malfeasance
And then the endless false claim salvation depends on people rather than God. Why these obvious total falsehoods are allowed to be posted endlessly is beyond me. Scripture says our faith provides our access to God's grace, not to our obtaining that grace. God and God alone is the one who chooses to credit our faith or not. Romans 4.

LOL

 

[percho]

• And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

I posted Mark 1:15 above. Please underline where it says CLEARLY that “all sinners must REPENT and BELIEVE in the Gospel, before they can be saved”. I see NOTHING about “before they can be saved”.

You have handled to word of God dishonestly. It does not say what you claim it says.

Ephesians 2:8, in contrast, DOES SAY: “you have been saved through faith”. You can look it up for yourself. You can quote it back to me and it WILL contain the words that I claim it contains. Yet you refuse to address the words that actually do appear in Ephesians 2:8 except to say that “Reformers got their theology wrong” and to make false claims about what Mark 1:15 states.

I know whose report I will believe. I will believe the actual WORDS OF GOD and I will urge you to read what they ACTUALLY SAY. If you think that God says that He cannot do something unless men do something first, then post a clear verse that says so. Ephesians 2 clearly states otherwise (and it is not the only verse that does).

Amen Brother!

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; Romans 8:20 NKJV

God subjected the creation to vanity/futility and he did it before Genesis 3, yet he subjected it to vanity, in hope. God did the subjection, to vanity, for a purpose of God, which, "hope," will rectify and will accomplish that purpose of God.

IMHO

That purpose is clearly explained in 1 John 3:8 and Hebrews 2:6,7,14 and required the creation to go just as it did.

for the shewing forth of His righteousness in the present time, for His being righteous, and declaring him righteous who is of the faith of Jesus. Romans 3:26 ---- him, who (in time is called to be) of the faith of Jesus IMHO



Acts 15:18 'Known from the ages to God are all His works;

God will save whoever is saved without their help.

 

[Van]

LOL

Note the subject change, and the disregard for post #50!!
Calvinism is man-centered false doctrine, that is why they charge others with their malfeasance
And then the endless false claim salvation depends on people rather than God. Why these obvious total falsehoods are allowed to be posted endlessly is beyond me. Scripture says our faith provides our access to God's grace, not to our obtaining that grace. God and God alone is the one who chooses to credit our faith or not. Romans 4.

 

[kyredneck]

Yes, I blundered.

Yes, your condition (CDS) causes you to do this all the time.

 

[AustinC]

Note the subject change, and the disregard for post #50!!
Calvinism is man-centered false doctrine, that is why they charge others with their malfeasance
And then the endless false claim salvation depends on people rather than God. Why these obvious total falsehoods are allowed to be posted endlessly is beyond me. Scripture says our faith provides our access to God's grace, not to our obtaining that grace. God and God alone is the one who chooses to credit our faith or not. Romans 4.

Hmmm...belief in the full Sovereignty of God. Belief that God alone redeems. Belief that faith is entirely a gift of God. Etc...
Yep, Van thinks all those things are man-centered since Calvinists believe them to be true.

Can, we have read more than enough of your theology to know that your view is not held by anyone except you Let that sink in.

 

[Van]

Yes, your condition (CDS) causes you to do this all the time.

Yet another personal insult post from the Calvinists! Could they all be suffering from BDS (Bible Derangement Syndrome)?

 

[Van]

Hmmm...belief in the full Sovereignty of God. Belief that God alone redeems. Belief that faith is entirely a gift of God. Etc...
Yep, Van thinks all those things are man-centered since Calvinists believe them to be true.

Can, we have read more than enough of your theology to know that your view is not held by anyone except you Let that sink in.

LOL, "Full Sovereignty!" Do they never tire of rewriting the definition of words according to their false doctrine?

Jesus says "your faith has saved you." (Luke 7:50) Calvinist rewrite this to say "your God instilled via irresistible grace faith as saved you!"

Calvinism is man-centered, putting the blame for everything on God. Just like the blame shifting liberals, blaming the Pandemic or Putin or Mr. Trump for the inflation they deliberately caused.

 

[AustinC]

LOL, "Full Sovereignty!" Do they never tire of rewriting the definition of words according to their false doctrine?

Jesus says "your faith has saved you." (Luke 7:50) Calvinist rewrite this to say "your God instilled via irresistible grace faith as saved you!"

Calvinism is man-centered, putting the blame for everything on God. Just like the blame shifting liberals, blaming the Pandemic or Putin or Mr. Trump for the inflation they deliberately caused.

God tells us that He gives his children faith. I find it interesting how much you dislike this truth.

*2 Peter 1:1*

Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

*Ephesians 2:4-9*

But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Where is the blame placed on God, Van? Be honest, you hear what I say and you think that I blame God. How you come to this conclusion is a mystery.

Van, you prove my point when I say that you pluck verses out of context. You chose part of one verse in Luke 7 (verse 50), but that is a small part of the bigger story, which shows us that the faith the woman had as her own, was a gift given to her by God.

*Luke 7:37-50*

And behold, a woman of the city, who was a sinner, when she learned that he was reclining at table in the Pharisee’s house, brought an alabaster flask of ointment, and standing behind him at his feet, weeping, she began to wet his feet with her tears and wiped them with the hair of her head and kissed his feet and anointed them with the ointment. Now when the Pharisee who had invited him saw this, he said to himself, “If this man were a prophet, he would have known who and what sort of woman this is who is touching him, for she is a sinner.” And Jesus answering said to him, “Simon, I have something to say to you.” And he answered, “Say it, Teacher.” “A certain moneylender had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. When they could not pay, he cancelled the debt of both. Now which of them will love him more?” Simon answered, “The one, I suppose, for whom he cancelled the larger debt.” And he said to him, “You have judged rightly.” Then turning toward the woman he said to Simon, “Do you see this woman? I entered your house; you gave me no water for my feet, but she has wet my feet with her tears and wiped them with her hair. You gave me no kiss, but from the time I came in she has not ceased to kiss my feet. You did not anoint my head with oil, but she has anointed my feet with ointment. Therefore I tell you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven—for she loved much. But he who is forgiven little, loves little.” And he said to her, “Your sins are forgiven.” Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, “Who is this, who even forgives sins?” And he said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace.”

Why do you refuse to give God the glory?