2 Persons?
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Is God The Father Fons Deitatis?
- Thread starter SavedByGrace
- Start date
Before his birth, the Second person of the trinity was the Logos, who became when incarnated the Son!
All 3 of them have eternally existed as Yahweh
37818
Well-Known Member
God the Father and the Son of God are two distinct Persons, are they not?
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
you mean that Jesus Christ is not Yahweh from all eternity, and in the OT?
he was Yahweh, but was not the father, was His eternal word, the Logos!
Yes, both equally God
So, God changed?
No, as the second person of the trinity stayed God fully, but now also a full human!
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Not as Yahweh. As Adonai.
YHWH or Yahweh is God. God, the Holy Spirit, and the son/Word as one is called Adonai/Lord. Adonai is from eternity. God, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus are beings manifested separately in creation. As one they are called Adonai/Lord.
Somehow, since the first century, the church has used God as the "catch all" term.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
nonsense!
Jesus Himself says that He is Yahweh.
In the original words found in Malachi 3:1, where the Speaker is Yahweh. The Greek of Matthew 11:10 ( Mark 1:1-3; Luke 7:27), the words are neither from the Hebrew or Greek (LXX) of the passage in Malachi. Instead, The Lord Jesus Christ, on His own Authority, has changed the words, so that they refer directly to Himself, what is in Malachi, of Yahweh. Jesus has changed the first person, “before Me (μου)”, to the second person, “before thee (σου)”. In the passage in Malachi, Yahweh speaks of the “messenger”, who is John the Baptist, as His forerunner, “going before Him”. Jesus, by changing the pronoun, appropriates what Yahweh Speaks in Malachi, to Himself, and makes John the Baptist as His own “messenger”, who went before Him! In the passage in Malachi, we also have the Coming of the “the Messenger (Angel) of the Covenant”, Who is “the Lord ('âdôn) Whom you seek”, before Whom John the Baptist went to “prepare the Way”!
Matthew 3:3, and the other Gospels, also teaches that John the Baptist was the Forerunner of Yahweh, as in Jesus Christ, “God manifested in the flesh” (1 Timothy 3:16. Pauls words)
“For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Isaiah, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare you the Way of the Lord, make His paths straight.”
In the original verse in Isaiah 40:3, it reads, “The voice of him that cries in the wilderness, Prepare you the Way of the LORD (Yahweh), make straight in the desert a highway for our God”
By using this passage in Isaiah for the Coming of the Lord Jesus Christ, in the Gospels, is beyond any doubt, one of the strongest evidences in Scripture, for the absolute Deity of the Lord Jesus Christ! Only those who doubt the Word of God, will doubt this about Jesus Christ.
There are a great many instances in the Old Testament, where this Name is used for Almighty God. In Exodus 23:17, “the Lord (Adon) GOD”; Exodus 34:23, “before the Lord (Adon) GOD, the God of Israel”; Joshua 3:11, 13, “the Lord (Adon) of all the earth”; Psalm 97:5, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; Psalm 114:7 reads, “Tremble, thou earth, at the presence of the Lord (Adon)”; Isaiah 1:24, 3:1, 10:16, 10:33, 19:4, “the Lord (Adon), the LORD of hosts”; Isaiah 51:22, “Thus saith thy Lord (Adon) the LORD, and thy God”; Micah 4:13, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; Zechariah 4:14, “the Lord (Adon) of the whole earth”; 6:5, “the Lord (Adon) of all the earth”. In Deuteronomy 10:17, we read: “O give thanks to the Lord of lords”; and Psalm 136:3, it says: “For the LORD your God [is] God of gods, and Lord of lords”. In the Hebrew, where it says “Lord”, and “lord”, in its 4 uses, the word used is, “Adon”. They are in the masculine plural, literally, “master of masters”.
Father, jesus, and Holy Spirit are all eternally God!
timtofly
Well-Known Member
God, the Word, and Holy Spirit are all Adonai, LORD.
That did not change at a certain dispensation. People just started using human terms, ie Father and Son.
SavedByGrace
Well-Known Member
so is God that Father called ADONAI in the OT!
timtofly
Well-Known Member
I cannot edit this quote:
I will attempt to clear up my error. The term YWHW is Lord. My point should have been YWHW is not God. Elohim is the term for God in the OT.
I should have said Elohim is God. YWHW is the Lord/Adonai. God, the Word, and the Holy Spirit are the manifested Trinity in creation. God is still the catch all term, which is the wrong approach from a Scriptural standpoint. God is not the originator or fountain of the Son. The use of father and son replaces the term God and the Word in linguistics. All 3 were involved in the process of Jesus' birth, but supernaturally, not scientifically. As science cannot explain the nature of God becoming man 100%. Certainly Jesus as a man was 100% biological from Adam's genetic perspective, but Jesus did not take on Adam's dead corruptible flesh. That is also besides the point Jesus did not have a sin nature, which is not genetic.
So, no God was not the fountain. Adonai/Lord/YWHW allowed the physical manifestation of Jesus on earth is what I was trying to point out but failed to do so.
I apologize for the confusion.
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
The term יהוה is the proper name of God. Exodus 3:
[13] Then Moses said to God, “If I come to the people of Israel and say to them, ‘The God of your fathers has sent me to you,’ and they ask me, ‘What is his name?’ what shall I say to them?” [14] God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” [15] God also said to Moses, “Say this to the people of Israel: ‘The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.’ This is my name forever, and thus I am to be remembered throughout all generations. (Exodus 3:13–15 ESV, emphasis mine)
"I AM" is the divine name, יהוה. It is built on the 3rd-person singular form of the Hebrew verb "to be." He (God!) Himself claims it as His own name.
If Jesus was not in "Adam's flesh" then how could He die? Why was there a transfiguration? By your errant thinking, Jesus should have appeared as "transfigured" all the time, not just at the transfiguration.
Lots of problems here... theological and logical.
The Archangel
No, the Persons were revealed as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
So you do not accept they were 3 persons in Genesis 1? When God walked with Adam in the Garden was that the Word?
There literally is no time affect on the 3 persons in the Trinity, yet from our standpoint there was a specific time the Word was made flesh. So the Son would be the Son throughout all of time. Time would not limit the Lord God in any way.
37818
Well-Known Member
You have an inept view of God and the Persons who are that God.
timtofly
Well-Known Member
Then the majority view is just human understanding along with opinion, and some form of opinionated education, and certainly not God's Word.
Inept must mean free of human theology mixed together with years of philosophy.
Why do humans have such a narrow restricted view of God?